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dhjdhj · Post by **dhjdhj** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:25 am

Love the Zebra product but I don't understand the semantics behind the grid. If I place two oscillators one under the other, I see a line from the first to the second. What does that line mean? Is the first oscillator modulating the second one?

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:56 am

dhjdhj wrote:Love the Zebra product but I don't understand the semantics behind the grid. If I place two oscillators one under the other, I see a line from the first to the second. What does that line mean? Is the first oscillator modulating the second one?

No, the sound of the second is simply added to the sound of the first

dhjdhj · Post by **dhjdhj** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:59 am

Well, in that case, what does it mean to put two VCF objects one after the other? My assumption was that the output of the first went into the input of the second but based on what you're suggesting for oscillators, is it the case that the audio from an oscillator above the two filters would go into both filters, i.e., in parallel?

pdxindy wrote:
No, the sound of the second is simply added to the sound of the first

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:13 am

dhjdhj wrote:Well, in that case, what does it mean to put two VCF objects one after the other? My assumption was that the output of the first went into the input of the second but based on what you're suggesting for oscillators, is it the case that the audio from an oscillator above the two filters would go into both filters, i.e., in parallel?

pdxindy wrote:
No, the sound of the second is simply added to the sound of the first

No, not parallel... 2 filters in the same channel are serial

If you want parallel, you would put your second filter in the second channel in the slot next to the osc (or second of 2 osc if there are 2) then right click on it and select input 1. Then you would put a mix module in channel 1 and mix the output from the first filter with the second.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:17 am

Modules that *produce* sound will *add* their output to anything that reaches them. Oscillators are the classic example.

Modules that *modify* sound will *replace* the incoming signal by their output on the same lane. Filters are the classic example.

Many modules however are ambiguous. A self-modulating FM Oscillator adds to the signal while an FMO that takes the input as a modulator is rather seen as a filter.

This is highly inconsistent, but it makes things easy.

Cheers,

Urs

dhjdhj · Post by **dhjdhj** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:22 am

In that case, my original question stands ---- there doesn't seem to be any consistent semantics for these connections. If I have two oscillators in the same channel, then they're parallel, but if I have two filters, then they're serial.

Where is this documented? How is one supposed to know? It seems like the parallel vs serial is controlled by the receiving object rather than by the topology. How would you make one oscillator modulate another in this environment?

The online user manual doesn't seem to discuss this at all.

No, not parallel... 2 filters in the same channel are serial

If you want parallel, you would put your second filter in the second channel in the slot next to the osc (or second of 2 osc if there are 2) then right click on it and select input 1. Then you would put a mix module in channel 1 and mix the output from the first filter with the second.[/quote]

dhjdhj · Post by **dhjdhj** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:25 am

Ah --- I see that my response to the previous question didn't get posted in order. It did seem inconsistent to me but at least there are SOME rules.

This thing has a great sound.

Urs wrote:Modules that *produce* sound will *add* their output to anything that reaches them. Oscillators are the classic example.

Modules that *modify* sound will *replace* the incoming signal by their output on the same lane. Filters are the classic example.

Many modules however are ambiguous. A self-modulating FM Oscillator adds to the signal while an FMO that takes the input as a modulator is rather seen as a filter.

This is highly inconsistent, but it makes things easy.

Cheers,

Urs

suthnear · Post by **suthnear** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:30 am

dhjdhj wrote:Where is this documented? How is one supposed to know?

I find listening to the output works fairly well

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:31 am

dhjdhj wrote:The online user manual doesn't seem to discuss this at all.

You're right... there was a chapter about it, but I can't find it either

Nevermind, everything will be updated for version 2.5, most likely in the form of videos first before any written manual.

dhjdhj · Post by **dhjdhj** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:35 am

Sure --- but that's a very time consuming method --- I didn't want to have to perform Edisonian experiments for something that presumably was already well understood....I'd rather have read an article quickly to get me up to speed.

(Believe it or not, Zebra, great as it is, is not the only piece of software that I need to learn...I'm also simultaneously trying to get up to speed with Bidule and AudioMulch as well as some new hardware.....so I'm trying to be efficient in my use of time)

suthnear wrote:
I find listening to the output works fairly well

dhjdhj · Post by **dhjdhj** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:38 am

Oh, please write it up before doing videos --- I can read much faster than I can watch a video and I'm not bringing my computer into the bathroom!

Urs wrote: You're right... there was a chapter about it, but I can't find it either

Nevermind, everything will be updated for version 2.5, most likely in the form of videos first before any written manual.

sinzero · Post by **sinzero** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:13 pm

dhjdhj wrote:Oh, please write it up before doing videos --- I can read much faster ...

watch some of Urs current videos, you will see they are much much better than reading any manual

Shabdahbriah · Post by **Shabdahbriah** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:25 pm

sinzero wrote:
dhjdhj wrote:Oh, please write it up before doing videos --- I can read much faster ...
watch some of Urs current videos, you will see they are much much better than reading any manual

I particularly enjoyed the one where he has 'Smurfs' walking-off with words from the online user manual.

They're all really good though.

dhjdhj · Post by **dhjdhj** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:34 pm

It's not about how good they are. Different people have different learning styles and over the last fifty (!) years, if nothing else I have figured out that I learn much faster by reading than by watching videos (or listening to audio feeds)....partially because I'm not an auditory learner anyway, and partially because it's far more time efficient to read through a document. For me, time efficiency wins every time.

sinzero wrote:
watch some of Urs current videos, you will see they are much much better than reading any manual

sinzero · Post by **sinzero** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:15 pm

dhjdhj wrote:...it's far more time efficient to read through a document. For me, time efficiency wins every time.

well, i've seen time and time again how a 1 minute video clip explains what 1000 words can't. That' efficiency to me

anyway, enjoy zebra whatever way you learn it

u-he

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