Sequence loops

[robenestobenz]

Yet, eh? I'm liking the sound of that 'yet'.

M3 implementation of the loop stuff sounds much improved to me.

[TheGuysanIdiot]

Jo,

Although I like the current way MU.LAB works with loops etc. It is clear that many new users find it hard to understand.

Most functionality should be at sequence level but with the ability to have a "part" easily modified for maximum flexibility.

Your proposed "new" system looks easier to understand and still has some flex in the "parts". I personally find it hard to imagine the shortcomings in this type of functionality and I would prefer to have a go at it. So to that end it would probably be a good idea to make the M3 beta along the lines of your "new" idea.

Generally speaking you need to make it easier/less confusing for the new user whilst retaining as much musical flexibility as possible.

So your new system gets my vote - OK with me.

OZ

[MuTools]

The only thing i little bit worry about is that it may be confusing that, in the new system, the sequence loop is set at sequence level, while the sequence start-offset is set at part level.

So imaging a composition with a couple of parts that are all using sequence X.

Now changing the loop locators will have effect in all parts, while changing the start locator will only affect the edited part.

Idea: This possible confusion can be minimized by giving the start and loop-start/end locators different colors to emphasize the difference.

I've updated the above mockup to illustrate this:

[TheGuysanIdiot]

Jo,

I feel another headache coming on. The mockup looks the same as in your previous post. What am I to look at? The yellow marker?

Sorry I am not fully awake yet.

OZ

[liquidsound]

I like the color flag and the whole thing is not really confusing for a new user.
I mean MuLab has several unique features which has to force a new user to learn them anyway, so this is just another one. Elegant though!

A wish for me would be to see in the sequencer a stronger visual clue for the Part Start point.

[MuTools]

I feel another headache coming on. The mockup looks the same as in your previous post. What am I to look at? The yellow marker?

OZ, i updated the original picture, so there is no difference as it's the same picture.

Anyway, goodmorning

[MuTools]

A wish for me would be to see in the sequencer a stronger visual clue for the Part Start point.

How do you see that?

[liquidsound]

Perhaps a 3D emboss or a lighter/dark shade or the note's color.
No one ever complained about this, so it is probably not so important.
Just an idea that could be used for other reasons...

[pljones]

Some way of making the "Part Start" feel as if it's coming in from outside the sequence (without losing the ability to adjust it whilst editing the sequence). Maybe the marker should be more of a --v than |> to indicate something from outside jumping in at that point? (ASCII art, eh? )

[TheGuysanIdiot]

Jo,

After I finally woke up this morning I decided to go to the seaside.

Now I am back, I think you are on the right lines. There will always be some confusion for users when dealing with something as complex as sequences, parts, loops, start, end, cloning, duplicating and how these functions interact with each other. Indeed use of colour and symbols is a good idea also using the "hint" (hover over with mouse) style texts.

I cannot think of anything further to add on this.

OZ

[Nielzie]

In Muzys, things were more simple: A sequence simply had a 'Length', and the sequence simply looped over that length. Easy and effective!
And if you wanted a longer loop, then you could simply increase the sequence length (with nice options e.g. repeating the existing notes into the new space) and so you got the longer loop.


Conclusion:

I think that trashing the sequence Loop-End locators, and making each sequence loop over its own sequence length would make the sequence looping easier and more transparant, while gaining back the best of Muzys in this aspect.

What do you think?

I think this is really a great idea! The looping and copying of loops now feels a little uncomfortable with me. I'm used to EnergyXT's simple way of working and it would be great if MU.LAB would be easier to handle on this front.

Working with the mouse in both the part and sequense environment, could be a little more natural. Why not just right click copy/cut/paste to make things easier for instance? There's too many submenu's, so there's so much navigating and clicking now

Also It would be nice to have an optional installer to download (some people just like to have installers, like me ) and scale up the icon of MU.LAB because it get's pixelated when made larger in Vista (CTRL + mousewheel scroll on desktop, to see what I mean)

And why do you must use ASIO4ALL drivers? Will there in the future be a possibility to also use the native soundcard drivers?

MU.LAB has is still a little robust but has very much potential imo. Like a rough diamond that need a little more polish I must say that right now I like the workflow and ease of use of eXT still a little more, but the development and support of MU.TOOLS is more alive and it will eventually catch up en blow eXT out of the water I think. We have a developer here that listens and is responding to the users opinions and request, which is great Nice and helpfull little community here btw

[MuTools]

I think this is really a great idea! The looping and copying of loops now feels a little uncomfortable with me. I'm used to EnergyXT's simple way of working and it would be great if MU.LAB would be easier to handle on this front.

The new/improved M3 sequence loop system is ready.

I think it's super! It definitely fills in all my personal whishes and combines the best of Muzys and MU.LAB on this aspect. I'm confident and hopeful you will like it too

Thanks to you all for the interesting feedback

Working with the mouse in both the part and sequense environment, could be a little more natural. Why not just right click copy/cut/paste to make things easier for instance? There's too many submenu's, so there's so much navigating and clicking now

M3 features a key shortcut system. That way you can bypass the submenus if you want.

Also It would be nice to have an optional installer to download (some people just like to have installers, like me ) and scale up the icon of MU.LAB because it get's pixelated when made larger in Vista (CTRL + mousewheel scroll on desktop, to see what I mean)

Thanks for reporting this. Will check.

And why do you must use ASIO4ALL drivers? Will there in the future be a possibility to also use the native soundcard drivers?

Because ASIO is the most solid audio driver protocol on Windows.

M3 does indeed also support MME Audio (stereo out only, no inputs) just to avoid that people would skip MU.LAB because they need to install ASIO4ALL.
(In case of using MME Audio, M3 gives a friendly alert that ASIO is recommended)

MU.LAB has is still a little robust but has very much potential imo. Like a rough diamond that need a little more polish I must say that right now I like the workflow and ease of use of eXT still a little more

Please elaborate on this.

Where is MU.LAB still too rough?

Which ext workflow aspects do you like more?

It will be thanks to your feedback that the diamond can be furtherly polished

[Branis]

... and scale up the icon of MU.LAB because it get's pixelated when made larger in Vista (CTRL + mousewheel scroll on desktop, to see what I mean)

Thanks for reporting this. Will check.

Jo, did you receive my e-mail about this, it's sent on August 20?

[MuTools]

Yes, well received, thanks!

Apologies to you and some others for not yet having replied on some mails (will do soon). I'm working on M3's first test version.

[bfloyd6969]

M3 does indeed also support MME Audio (stereo out only, no inputs) just to avoid that people would skip MU.LAB because they need to install ASIO4ALL.
(In case of using MME Audio, M3 gives a friendly alert that ASIO is recommended)

This is very good news to me!! I do alot of mixdown at my work pc's which are not ASIO driven. I do all my tracking at my home pc (ASIO), but find alot of time at work to do mixing. Thanks so much for this .