u-he

bagginz · Post by **bagginz** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:31 pm

hakey wrote:In Live 8.0.5 moving one of the EQ "points" will often cause other points to move in unpredictable ways. It seems that the smaller the original movement the larger the unwanted "sympathetic" movement.

This seems to be the case in both 2.3 and 2.5.

I'm using Novation Automap 3.2 - but it seems to happen even when this is not running.

Yes, I've noticed this one before. It's been there for a while.

Small enough for me just to learn to live with it, but would be nice if it was fixed at some point

bagginz

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:39 pm

hakey wrote:In Live 8.0.5 moving one of the EQ "points" will often cause other points to move in unpredictable ways. It seems that the smaller the original movement the larger the unwanted "sympathetic" movement.

This seems to be the case in both 2.3 and 2.5.

I'm using Novation Automap 3.2 - but it seems to happen even when this is not running.

There is currently a bug in Novation automap in Live 8 that whenever you're using am automap wrapped VST, you can get jumps in parameters when you're touching another parameter. It's probably this you're seeing. They've fixed it internally but haven't released another beta yet. I'm waiting on this too....

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:45 pm

bagginz wrote:
hakey wrote:In Live 8.0.5 moving one of the EQ "points" will often cause other points to move in unpredictable ways. It seems that the smaller the original movement the larger the unwanted "sympathetic" movement.

This seems to be the case in both 2.3 and 2.5.

I'm using Novation Automap 3.2 - but it seems to happen even when this is not running.
Yes, I've noticed this one before. It's been there for a while.

Small enough for me just to learn to live with it, but would be nice if it was fixed at some point

bagginz

Good, I'm glad it's not just me! It doesn't happen with Live 7.0.16 (Lite or LE).

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:49 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
hakey wrote:In Live 8.0.5 moving one of the EQ "points" will often cause other points to move in unpredictable ways. It seems that the smaller the original movement the larger the unwanted "sympathetic" movement.

This seems to be the case in both 2.3 and 2.5.

I'm using Novation Automap 3.2 - but it seems to happen even when this is not running.
There is currently a bug in Novation automap in Live 8 that whenever you're using am automap wrapped VST, you can get jumps in parameters when you're touching another parameter. It's probably this you're seeing. They've fixed it internally but haven't released another beta yet. I'm waiting on this too....

I did suspect Automap at first, but I get it when using a single non Automap-wrapped instance of Zebra and even when I've turned Automap off completely.

bagginz · Post by **bagginz** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:03 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
hakey wrote:In Live 8.0.5 moving one of the EQ "points" will often cause other points to move in unpredictable ways. It seems that the smaller the original movement the larger the unwanted "sympathetic" movement.

This seems to be the case in both 2.3 and 2.5.

I'm using Novation Automap 3.2 - but it seems to happen even when this is not running.
There is currently a bug in Novation automap in Live 8 that whenever you're using am automap wrapped VST, you can get jumps in parameters when you're touching another parameter. It's probably this you're seeing. They've fixed it internally but haven't released another beta yet. I'm waiting on this too....

No Automap installed here, still getting (huge) random jumps in e.q parameters.

Actually Hakey, this isn't the bug I was talking about in the post before, I Just checked. This is much worse. Makes the e.q totally unuseable (Zeb2.5b7 + live 8.05)

Like you, I also have no e.q. problem when using Zeb2.5b7 in Live 7.016

And.... aha! the so called "ducking" bug which I posted about 10 or so posts before (and I was surprised no one else was shouting about as it was so bad) also does not appear when using Zeb2.5b7 in Live 7.016

So we clearly have some kind of incompatibility with (Zeb2.5b7 + live 8.05)

cheers,
bagginz

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:52 pm

Oh ok, so it's not the automap bug...

Live 8 seems to pose a problem to many plug-ins these days and make bugs appear in instruments where they weren't before Live 8.

Just for fun, try something (I'm curious):

In the instance where you were having the problems with the jumping eq parameters, hit 'configure' on the ableton device containing zebra and unfold it to see the parameters. Now move the eq parameters that were jumping while configure is engaged (you'll see them show up in live's unfolded device view). After configuring all the eq parameters, do they still jump when tweaking them?

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:12 pm

Thanks Echoes - that worked!

Next problem: closing Zebra's UI crashes Live. I get the "A serious problem... etc" dialogue. I then have to do a complete reboot and re-enable Audio to get Live running again.

I'm using the demo mode ATM, but that shouldn't make any difference should it?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:36 pm

hakey wrote:Thanks Echoes - that worked!

So is this a bug in Live8 then?

Next problem: closing Zebra's UI crashes Live. I get the "A serious problem... etc" dialogue. I then have to do a complete reboot and re-enable Audio to get Live running again.

I'm using the demo mode ATM, but that shouldn't make any difference should it?

Sheesh. Closing gui of Zebra2.5b7 crashes? Live 8 for Win demo?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:38 pm

bagginz wrote:And.... aha! the so called "ducking" bug which I posted about 10 or so posts before (and I was surprised no one else was shouting about as it was so bad) also does not appear when using Zeb2.5b7 in Live 7.016

The actual ducking or stutter bug is fixed. It's a short drop-out that can occurr at the beginning of a note.

I've never been quite sure if that's the same thing you've been talking about.

I think we'll have a new beta tomorrow and then we'll see...

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:12 am

Urs wrote:
hakey wrote:Thanks Echoes - that worked!
So is this a bug in Live8 then?

Seems like it. But it doesn't affect all plug-ins or parameters. There seems to be something in Live 8 to do with unconfigured parameters for plug-ins which causes parameters to jump. But I don't know what it is. Novation said they had written code in automap as a workaround for a bug in the earlier live 8 versions to do with parameters. Then in subsequent Live 8.0 releases they had fixed whatever it was, but that made the code break that novation had written to work around the bug, and actually caused parameters to jump when different ones were tweaked. Now apparently novation have removed that code and fixed it (but haven' released a new beta).

I've also heard of parameters jumping in NI Kore in Ableton 8, and now Zebra too.

The suggestion I wrote above to hakey is one I tried on my novation wrapped plug-ins when they were jumping, and it stopped only those parameters which I configured in Live from jumping. And now apparently configuring the eq parameters of Zebra in Live makes them stop jumping as well. So I can't help but feel that the problem is related and it is to do with parameters that are not 'configured'. Note also that this problem couldn't have happened in Live 7 because there was no plug-in configuration. Live was able to see the first 128 parameters and that's it. Now you can chose which ones it sees and in what order.
The fact that configuring the eq parameters also worked on Zebra implies that if novation were able to change something to prevent the jumping, then maybe the same could be done for Zebra? I'm not sure I trust Ableton to deal with this.

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:45 am

Urs wrote: Sheesh. Closing gui of Zebra2.5b7 crashes? Live 8 for Win demo?

I've just checked and 2.5b7 is okay!

Closing the Zebra UI with 2.3.1 crashes Live 8.0.5 demo every time.

Also with the Live 7.0.16 Lite and demo I'm occasionally getting an empty frame when opening Zebra's UI (not sure which Zebra build, I'll have to reboot my computer again to reload Live.)

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:10 am

hakey wrote:
Urs wrote: Sheesh. Closing gui of Zebra2.5b7 crashes? Live 8 for Win demo?
I've just checked and 2.5b7 is okay!

Good! Then I won't bother

GMusic · Post by **GMusic** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:08 pm

hi urs, what's new in Beta 9?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:24 pm

GMusic wrote:hi urs, what's new in Beta 9?

Thank Dog you skipped 8... 8 had a massive bug or two

9 should have a problem fixed when anything in the mixer section below the Grid is modulated by the ModMatrix and presets would sometimes mysteriously load wrong. That was even worse in 8. I havn't got much feedback from the beta team though, hence I havn't posted it here (feedback was so negative for 8 that I didn't bother putting it up here).

Will post 9 here officially when it's "cleared".

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:28 pm

is beta9 available for download anywhere?
rsp

edit: never mind. saw the last line of the post above too late...and it isn't like urs is using any special masking techniques to figure out the address of the download

rsp

u-he

KVR Audio

Zebra 2.5 Released!