Does the authenticity of your guitar amp/cab emulaton matter to you?

[jancivil]

...
with an amp sim for playing a guitar through, yes I am looking for some tones I've gotten before and to expand on that. (I got a marshall tone last nite that was exactamundo what I was dialing for, through some Amplitubes, and I'll post that maybe tomorrow btw.)...

Please do!

...
that said, for me there is no value or interest in A/Bing emus with the real thing as I don't own any of the latter, it's too high maintenance anyway to cart hardware around, I'm too old for that shit.

Personally, and I have been happy with AmpliTube for far longer than the time I've been with IK, as far as software and AmpliTube specifically - as a consumer/lazy recording guy, I came for the convenience and left with excellent tone that exceeded my expectations. I have had and do have hardware amps, I love them too. I don't think I even subconsciously A/B the models with the real versions I've played. I just like what comes out of the speakers in the end.

Yeah. Here's the thing, I could get the tone I just got in a room with a marshall with the right pre etc, but it would have been a PITA and the nabors would have my ass behind it, and it would've been expensive, and then I would have carted it to a good room with mics and dicked with it there again.

here, in ten, twelve minutes - in the motel room - I have something to hit record and get. The bit of extra pizzazz on top which some will say detracts from the authenticity/analog is going to cut through the rest of the band and be absorbed in the mix, or I can mix it to where it isn't if I need to. At higher gains, it's a moot point with this tone.

[susiwong]

Now the cat's out of the bag (DC'09) here's my recipe for a really authentic Fender sound and feel ITB.
Density II (slight compression) > AT Fender w/o cab > GR4 CR > FerricTDS (Bootsie's DC'09 entry) with (Dynamics high, Saturation low, SC high, rest to taste) > FX in the host.
This chain finally feels and sounds like my real Fenders.
Proceed in a similar way for crunch sounds, you might not need the pre comp here.
Try variations of that recipe, FerricTDS and GR4's CR brought the breakthrough for me personally.
http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/200 ... -kvr-dc09/
Ymmv,
susiwong

edit:
hopefully the next generation of ampsims will bring that level of realism in the individual packages without need of external help, the above chain shows me it can be done.
ATM NI has the lead in speaker emulation, IK in amp emulation, both still lack the authentic dynamic reaction I used Bootsie's fine plugs for. And one of the included stomp comps doesn't cut it at all, unfortunately.

[Hink]

Now the cat's out of the bag (DC'09) here's my recipe for a really authentic Fender sound and feel ITB.
Density II (slight compression) > AT Fender w/o cab > GR4 CR > FerricTDS (Bootsie's DC'09 entry) with (Dynamics high, Saturation low, SC high, rest to taste) > FX in the host.
This chain finally feels and sounds like my real Fenders.
Proceed in a similar way for crunch sounds, you might not need the pre comp here.
Try variations of that recipe, FerricTDS and GR4's CR brought the breakthrough for me personally.
http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/200 ... -kvr-dc09/
Ymmv,
susiwong

I'm guessing you probably get your results by starting with the attack on the comp to soften it up a little?

[susiwong]

I'm guessing you probably get your results by starting with the attack on the comp to soften it up a little?

Correct, though Density II has no attack control per se but a rotary with several time constant presets, really intuitive and effective imho.
Experiment with other comps, an LA2A e.g. also works fine, an 1176 e.g. is too aggressive here, ymmv.
Comp and FerricTDS simulate the power tube compression in this chain.
Cheers,
susiwong

[blueman]

] here's my recipe for a really authentic Fender sound and feel ITB.
Density II (slight compression) > AT Fender w/o cab > GR4 CR > FerricTDS (Bootsie's DC'09 entry) with (Dynamics high, Saturation low, SC high, rest to taste) > FX in the host.
This chain finally feels and sounds like my real Fenders.

Yep, it works!

Thanks susiwong

[susiwong]

Yep, it works!

Thanks susiwong

Hey, great to hear it works for you !
Cheers,
susiwong

[Mutant]

Good sound is what really matters.

I don't care if it sounds like any real hardware amp or not.

[hibidy]

Authenticity.....hmmmm

Well, most of them sound pretty authentic, but there could be the argument that there isn't anything like a real amp. That is fair.

But I couldn't have had all the guitar playing I've had with a real amp. For one thing, in order to get it to sound into the DAW you have to mic it most likely. Also, you generally have to turn it up pretty far to get "that tone" which would be totally unreasonable. Then, after turning it up, miking it (after adjusting for "that tone", you have to worry about feedback (the kind you don't want)

So now, you've set your amp up the way you think it should sound, and you are at the DAW/computer and want to record. This requires yet more eq to get right and then it hits you, you need less drive, or something more "70's" or whatever....After countless hours, bothering the neighbors, trying to be a home musician with that "analog purity", etc etc you still have nothing to show for your effort.

With amp sims, you can change it later You can change the amp, cabs, fx, gain, and so many other things later if you are not happy. BUT chances are if you are serious, you can get the parts right and deal with the "perfect tone" later. AND, it works! Sims are so close that for the home musician it's a pretty serious alternative.

Now, if you are NOT a home musician, then chances are this is moot. Studios generally have fantastic amps/cabs/mics and someone who can get the "right" sound for you. That is what you are paying for!

just my 2 cents......or maybe just one cent

[luxth]

well, if the emulation is aimed at imitating a great sounding amp probably it matters.

but agree that if it sounds good it is good...

[susiwong]

well, if the emulation is aimed at imitating a great sounding amp probably it matters.

Lol, very true !
That's the idea after all.
With a Behringer amp or a Valvestate Marshall authenticity actually might be counterproductive.
Cheers,
susiwong

[shanecgriffo]

well, if the emulation is aimed at imitating a great sounding amp probably it matters.

Lol, very true !
That's the idea after all.
With a Behringer amp or a Valvestate Marshall authenticity actually might be counterproductive.
Cheers,
susiwong

i have all sorts of stuff (podxtl, amplitube jh edition, th1,) but find sometimes i still reach for my behringer v-amp (!)
my variax acoustic sound thru it with no amp engaged, a little compression and reverb is the acoustic sound i really like and haven't been able to replitate it with the other stuff.. go figure! haha

[susiwong]

i have all sorts of stuff (podxtl, amplitube jh edition, th1,) but find sometimes i still reach for my behringer v-amp (!)
my variax acoustic sound thru it with no amp engaged, a little compression and reverb is the acoustic sound i really like and haven't been able to replitate it with the other stuff.. go figure! haha

True, in a mix there are no bad sounds per se, everything depends on context.
But we can probably agree about some amps being on a different level sonically than the run-of-the-mill stuff.
Many of the vintage classics have been done, some more successful than others, but there are lots of stellar unique amps still waiting for emulation (Matchless, Jim Kelly, Dumble, Boogie Mk series, Peavey Classic done right, maybe a Diezel or similar for the metal workers etc etc), and there's a lot of room for improvement with current emulations.
Ymmv,
susiwong

[Hink]

But I couldn't have had all the guitar playing I've had with a real amp.

[Hink]

well, if the emulation is aimed at imitating a great sounding amp probably it matters.

Lol, very true !
That's the idea after all.
With a Behringer amp or a Valvestate Marshall authenticity actually might be counterproductive.
Cheers,
susiwong

i have all sorts of stuff (podxtl, amplitube jh edition, th1,) but find sometimes i still reach for my behringer v-amp (!)
my variax acoustic sound thru it with no amp engaged, a little compression and reverb is the acoustic sound i really like and haven't been able to replitate it with the other stuff.. go figure! haha

this brings out again what I like about the dulcimer I built, your statement nails how I feel and I wonder if more people thought like this about the guitar how much more creativity we would have (or instrument). I realize a lot of people do think like that (usually I don't mention names but in this case vurt comes to mind. I have learned a lot about guitar from him, or at least one large lesson).

With the dulcimer I actually have no desire to learn to play it right, I just want to create with it. I've already convoluted the tuning to extremes, "traditional" players would probably have me shot. If not because of the tuning surely because of what I do with that sound after.

It really brings out the relevance of the question put out by this thread. Face it we are influenced by artists that have been influenced by artist, who have been.... (I think my point is clear). There is a cycle here that has created what a guitar, what any instrument and any song is suppose to sound like (standards). I doubt there is very many people here that can actually say they have not passed judgment because of this theory many times. While it's completely natural and doesn't mean that we're all horrible judgmental people it does stifle creativity.

Just a few of years ago I would never of posted this silly little clip that I posted in the GR4 thread and in the cafe.

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... i&newref=1

Before I would of viewed it as nonsense and didn't do anything to promote my skills imo. I would of been more concerned about what people thought first because it's jibberish wankery. Now I really don't care because I know what I'm capable of, I know the best guitar playing (imo) I do will probably only be heard by me in one of those "wow that was cool" moments.

I think perhaps we strive to hard to sound authentic, to sound like our influences and to keep the pattern alive but in doing so perhaps we hold back the evolution of what could be. We lack the vision to see what might lay ahead and relive the past over and over, often to the point of judgment and even elitism. We accept the "standards" and feed into them, promote them and stoke the fire.

So I put will put out there that perhaps anything done in the name of authenticity possibly risks stifling creativity.

[susiwong]

So I put will put out there that perhaps anything done in the name of authenticity possibly risks stifling creativity.

Very true, if somebody seeks authenticity to sound like hero xy I'll be the first to point out there might be more valid options.

Can only speak for myself, but when I'm talking about authenticity I come from a slightly different angle.
A really great amp for me has a combination of desirable tonal qualities that far outweigh the inevitable deficiencies, things like string to string balance, transparent overdrive characteristic so you can get away with playing thirds or sixths in chords occasionally, a certain dynamic "elasticity", subtle reaction to playing techniques...
So I won't easily settle for less in an emu of that amp.

Authenticity for authenticity's sake however is not my thing.
I probably just today sold my great SF Twin to a friend since my Heartbreaker does these tones as well or even better (minus tremolo), can't justify keeping duplicates around. The money will be the start of saving up for a Matchless, probably an HC30, since these amps have some tonal magic I can't get from my other (fine) amps so it will serve me better than keeping the Twin Reverb just for the sake of owning one.
Ymmv,
susiwong