Does the authenticity of your guitar amp/cab emulaton matter to you?

[penguinfromdeep]

Authenticity matters very much, more and more in the plug-in world. There are so many options around that only the most authentic and painstakingly modeled will rise above the rest. Coders have to work twice as hard, and they should too!

Only with passion you can achieve something great.

[vespers75]

So I put will put out there that perhaps anything done in the name of authenticity possibly risks stifling creativity.

Agreed.

All if this guitar nerd shit "shop talk" is boring (and I'm a guitarist as well).

[jancivil]

...relevance of the question put out by this thread. Face it we are influenced by artists that have been influenced by artist, who have been.... (I think my point is clear). There is a cycle here that has created what a guitar, what any instrument and any song is suppose to sound like (standards). I doubt there is very many people here that can actually say they have not passed judgment because of this theory many times. While it's completely natural and doesn't mean that we're all horrible judgmental people it does stifle creativity.

I am a horrible judgmental person whose creativity is anything but stifled by it. That said:
I think if one is a 'guitar player' qua 'guitar player', one is not going to be as free to make a childlike mess (that, childlike mess, is a good thing IMO) as someone who doesn't care about that, and enter that sort of zone of creativity with the instrument as readily. For me there are many other entries into such a zone. I am interested in sort of employing myself as a crack guitarist now that I have a decent instrument and amp modeling software, just as I have employed crack saxamaphonists for the same general purpose.

I think perhaps we strive to hard to sound authentic, to sound like our influences and to keep the pattern alive but in doing so perhaps we hold back the evolution of what could be. We lack the vision to see what might lay ahead and relive the past over and over, often to the point of judgment and even elitism. We accept the "standards" and feed into them, promote them and stoke the fire.

So I put will put out there that perhaps anything done in the name of authenticity possibly risks stifling creativity.

how horribly judgmental of you.

I sounded like my influences when I was 17, there's hardly a turning back maneuver I could make at this point.

THAT SAID, I was a very dangerous avant garde guitarist in the '80's with quite a rep for being completely apeshit insane, you couldn't be more outside the box than that.

It's a matter of range. And desire. I had the idea when I was quite young that I could do anything, and I don't think deciding on an either/or strategy such as your post possibly suggests would have been the right idea for me.

[Hink]

...relevance of the question put out by this thread. Face it we are influenced by artists that have been influenced by artist, who have been.... (I think my point is clear). There is a cycle here that has created what a guitar, what any instrument and any song is suppose to sound like (standards). I doubt there is very many people here that can actually say they have not passed judgment because of this theory many times. While it's completely natural and doesn't mean that we're all horrible judgmental people it does stifle creativity.

I am a horrible judgmental person whose creativity is anything but stifled by it. That said:
I think if one is a 'guitar player' qua 'guitar player', one is not going to be as free to make a childlike mess (that, childlike mess, is a good thing IMO) as someone who doesn't care about that, and enter that sort of zone of creativity with the instrument as readily. For me there are many other entries into such a zone. I am interested in sort of employing myself as a crack guitarist now that I have a decent instrument and amp modeling software, just as I have employed crack saxamaphonists for the same general purpose.

I think perhaps we strive to hard to sound authentic, to sound like our influences and to keep the pattern alive but in doing so perhaps we hold back the evolution of what could be. We lack the vision to see what might lay ahead and relive the past over and over, often to the point of judgment and even elitism. We accept the "standards" and feed into them, promote them and stoke the fire.

So I put will put out there that perhaps anything done in the name of authenticity possibly risks stifling creativity.

how horribly judgmental of you.

I sounded like my influences when I was 17, there's hardly a turning back maneuver I could make at this point.

THAT SAID, I was a very dangerous avant garde guitarist in the '80's with quite a rep for being completely apeshit insane, you couldn't be more outside the box than that.

It's a matter of range. And desire. I had the idea when I was quite young that I could do anything, and I don't think deciding on an either/or strategy such as your post possibly suggests would have been the right idea for me.

interesting response, there is nothing wrong with striving to be a crack guitarist and in fact I feel the same as you. I thought hard about putting the word "wankering" in the description of my clip. Some points to think about, is there "poor" playing in that? Is there good playing in that? Is there brilliant guitar playing in that? Or is it all just the effect I was using?

The point is that there is a fine line in there and I believe that perhaps that line is a personal thing. It really comes down to what your motivation is and what you expect from your music. If you're in a cover band authenticity becomes important (or a tribute band for that matter). If you step back one generation from you and I would that generation describe your guitar sound as "authentic"? Were early synths authentic sounding keyboard instruments?

I can bring up the same story of my father and myself I have told before about my first guitar amp which actually came before my first electric guitar.(I had a cheap acoustic, actually classical guitar with a three inch speaker taped to the body of the guitar*) Dad resurrected a ham radio amplifier with me to use as a guitar amp, I remember him being very critical about the pre-amp tubes. It had to be 12at7s because he said they were cleaner (this I didn't understand until years later) and when we were done he was very proud of how clean it was. I have always felt bad because I know I hurt his feelings when I said "but dad, there is no distortion". He was proud because it did truly reproduce the authenticity of what he thought a guitar should sound like, my authenticity and expectations were far different than his.

*a dynamic speaker is also a mic and/or a pick up, while writing this it occurs to me that this might be a cheap, simple and awesome solution to the problem of the pickups for my dulcimer. The woodys I put in it were a waste of money, but two speakers properly placed on the wood (back and/or front) might work really well

I'm not sure how my end point was judgemental when I said "possibly risks" though

[Hink]

btw I'm sure back in the day either of us had the luxury of a strategy, never mind either/or...at least in my case it was do what I could do with what I had. I think even the most modern music reflects this still even though our choices are greater. I know I didn't choose to be the kind of player I am today (whatever you or others believe that to be is fine), peers, gear, and many variables have always defined my own evolution. But I don't think I ever made a "choice", I think it chose me.

[jonnyG]

Does the authenticity of your guitar amp/cab emulaton matter to you?

No! I just want to be able to dial in the sound that I'm hearing in my head.

[benjamind]

Virtual amps are only half the story, even if they are authentic. Now all we need virtual guitars. And those that cannot play guitars for whatever reason, for them this will be the next evolution. Right now, though, there is really nothing on offer that will satisfy that need. Sure, products in development may seem to be relevant, but until they are here, there is no point.

Ben

[shanecgriffo]

Virtual amps are only half the story, even if they are authentic. Now all we need virtual guitars. And those that cannot play guitars for whatever reason, for them this will be the next evolution. Right now, though, there is really nothing on offer that will satisfy that need. Sure, products in development may seem to be relevant, but until they are here, there is no point.

Ben

nah, c'mon you have to put the hard yards in with guitar!
gee, what will you think of next? -virtual drums??

[Hink]

don't worry, soon enough someone will circuit bend a guitar hero

[GreyLion]

So -- Ten years from now, when sims of real classic amps have been perfected, will they be including a bank of sims of old classic ampsims?...

[hibidy]

So -- Ten years from now, when sims of real classic amps have been perfected, will they be including a bank of sims of old classic ampsims?...

Except that they will never be perfected since they are a software emulation

[Lunatique]

I personally couldn't care less, since I'm one of those people who didn't grow up trying to learn how to play other people's songs, rarely if ever did covers, and have distinct lack of interest in classic rock sounds, which is what most amp simulations are obsessed with. I'm mostly very bored of all the classic rock worship and think all that stuff sounds very outdated and not nearly as dynamic and interesting as more modern sounds. I suppose the fact I like guitarists like Robin Guthrie, Johhny Marr, Edge...etc might say something about my taste. They are guys who tend to use amps and effects in ways that they weren't ever meant to be used--guys who got really creative with sculpting their own sounds.

So as long as there's a great range of different types of sound sculpting tools available where I can approximate other sounds without needing to be a perfect replica, and then I'm able to go wild with my own sounds, then it's all good.

[thelizard]

If it sounds like a guitar through an amplifier, I'm happy. It doesn't need to sound like any specific amplifier because, really, who is going to be like "I'm really, really glad that this track sounds like it was played through an actual Orange amplifier and not the 'Citrus' emulation heard in Guitar Rig"?

I mean, seriously, I'd be really happy if it didn't sound like a tone that had been recorded a thousand times before.

I'm also drunk, but hey, it's Halloween.

[hibidy]

If you've been drinking, there is a drunk only thread that needs some love

I've been playing all day (except during the candy give out time) and I'm glad I have more than one amp sim. Funny, I'd like to put it all "in a box" and just only do that type of sound, but I've got to get past that and remember different sims for different vibes.

ATfender is the "go to" strat plug. Just sick with fender oooze When I'm doing my PRS SE (can't justify a real one) I like guitarrig4 better. Not that one or the other doesn't sound good with different guitars, they are just different beasts.

What I've got to get past is the "banging an A chord" syndrome. I get the gnarliest tones with all the standard chords and like it so much I have a tendency to keep doing that only

[jancivil]

I'm not sure how my end point was judgemental when I said "possibly risks" though

...relevance of the question put out by this thread. Face it we are influenced by artists that have been influenced by artist, who have been.... (I think my point is clear). There is a cycle here that has created what a guitar, what any instrument and any song is suppose to sound like (standards). I doubt there is very many people here that can actually say they have not passed judgment because of this theory many times. While it's completely natural and doesn't mean that we're all horrible judgmental people it does stifle creativity.

I am a horrible judgmental person whose creativity is anything but stifled by it. That said:
...

So I put will put out there that perhaps anything done in the name of authenticity possibly risks stifling creativity.

how horribly judgmental of you.

interesting response, there is nothing wrong with striving to be a crack guitarist and in fact I feel the same as you. I thought hard about putting the word "wankering" in the description of my clip. Some points to think about, is there "poor" playing in that? Is there good playing in that? Is there brilliant guitar playing in that? Or is it all just the effect I was using?

anything I would say would be strictly from judgmental.

The point is that there is a fine line in there and I believe that perhaps that line is a personal thing. It really comes down to what your motivation is and what you expect from your music... If you step back one generation from you and I would that generation describe your guitar sound as "authentic"? Were early synths authentic sounding keyboard instruments?

Well, always a matter of time will tell, but I think that there are things which date well and things which don't. But, that's subjective. I used things such as Ensoniq Mirage {which was utter crap sound} because it was all a regular musician could afford, and it's a fetished sound now for some people. I was a DX7 programmer - anybody wanna make me an offer for my vintage DX7 RAM cartridge? Programmed by one of the best - but that sound dates things it was used on, and let's say you used it to replace a xylophone or vibes in 1984 as Zappa did... not the best idea was it...

OTOH there are sounds which are perhaps more timeless, I personally think it's because they sound better...

YMMV