Nice screenshot.
Your chickens must be extra happy lately, judging by this thread!Anyway I am off to feed more chickens as this seems to help my thought process.
DaveL
MULAB running in Linux - A challenge to myself.
-
- KVRian
- 952 posts since 14 Apr, 2004 from Maryland, USA
Have been reading this thread with great interest, and much appreciate your time and effort to report your results in detail. I'm looking at replacing our family PC soon, so the old one (a Pentium 4 Sony VAIO) may get a test run under Ubuntu Studio. I'm actually considering making it a dual-boot system so I can have Pinnacle Studio under WinXP for video editing and Ubuntu Studio for music stuff.
Nice screenshot.
DaveL
Nice screenshot.
DaveL
You can twist perceptions, reality won't budge.
-- Rush Show Don't Tell
-- Rush Show Don't Tell
-
- KVRAF
- 7412 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
I don't know if anyone does a wineasio package. (Maybe I should -- I'm sort of maintaining it... very much as caretaker than as developer, though.) The CPU thing -- well, yes, it's strange how some apps behave in WINE and MU.LAB isn't one of the better behaved.
Couple of (unrelated) questions:
* Did you use an "rt-" kernel?
* Did you try any other Windows DAW software? (I know you said you're only interested in MU.LAB but I'd have been too curious
)
Couple of (unrelated) questions:
* Did you use an "rt-" kernel?
* Did you try any other Windows DAW software? (I know you said you're only interested in MU.LAB but I'd have been too curious
)-
- KVRAF
- 3223 posts since 4 Jan, 2005
WINEASIO HERE !! sorry to yell.. www.sandgreen.dk/index.php?side=linux_wineasio
theres a script there and instructions. don't count ur chickens just yet..
theres a script there and instructions. don't count ur chickens just yet..
-
TheGuysanIdiot TheGuysanIdiot https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=213066
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 308 posts since 10 Aug, 2009 from United Kingdom
[funkadil]- "oh man i was hoping you would tough it out and go slackware. would have been an epic thread of getting everything working."
Sorry mate I was a bit tired this morning and probably sounded too negative not like me but it was me. My personal journey may have hit a bump in the road. BUT I will carry on as I can see many other MULAB users are interested.
I will not put a time limit on my trials and yes I would also like to see it working if at all possible.
Yes I do agree this is beginning to look like an epic.
I think I will leave the IBM for testing Linux/MULAB etc and get something else as my reserve music PC.
I too would also like to see it work in another Linux and Slackware is where I will head after the Ubuntu stuff.
I feel between all of us and my chickens we will find answers to this mystery.
I have now repaired my virtual motorcycle and it is full of fuel.
Everyone has been very helpful so far keep all the ideas coming no matter how stupid they are. And yes I have a few stupid ideas myself.
Right, positive mental attitude it is then.
(Motorcycle engine starts, a quick look in the mirrors and off I go).
To be continued …
OZ
Sorry mate I was a bit tired this morning and probably sounded too negative not like me but it was me. My personal journey may have hit a bump in the road. BUT I will carry on as I can see many other MULAB users are interested.
I will not put a time limit on my trials and yes I would also like to see it working if at all possible.
Yes I do agree this is beginning to look like an epic.
I think I will leave the IBM for testing Linux/MULAB etc and get something else as my reserve music PC.
I too would also like to see it work in another Linux and Slackware is where I will head after the Ubuntu stuff.
I feel between all of us and my chickens we will find answers to this mystery.
I have now repaired my virtual motorcycle and it is full of fuel.
Everyone has been very helpful so far keep all the ideas coming no matter how stupid they are. And yes I have a few stupid ideas myself.
Right, positive mental attitude it is then.
(Motorcycle engine starts, a quick look in the mirrors and off I go).
To be continued …
OZ
-
TheGuysanIdiot TheGuysanIdiot https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=213066
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 308 posts since 10 Aug, 2009 from United Kingdom
Not a postcard just a quick progress update.
I always review all the comments made within this forum topic. So to that end if it seems I have ignored anyone's comment the fact is I have not I am just going through the steps in an order I think has the best chance of working and also as I said before my command line Linux/UNIX is rusty but I am getting better with each day.
Ubuntu 9.10 - My user is already in the audio group so that is probably why there was no need to create this group and add my account to it.
Reading the CM article it does indeed give 3 command lines to enable real-time support for audio. Do not worry about what they actually are at the moment. I have performed the 3 commands.
It has not changed the way my Ardour wav file test performed but I did notice Ardour stops warning me about memlock limitations. So I guess the above commands are need in general.
Reloading MULAB in Wine however still does the weird sine wav pattern in the System Monitor and my CPU fan still goes wild.
Tomorrow after a consultation with my chickens and if it is OK with them I will spend time with the wineasio stuff
I shall park my motorcycle for tonight, pitch my tent and I will not drink any coffee.
Good night All
OZ
I always review all the comments made within this forum topic. So to that end if it seems I have ignored anyone's comment the fact is I have not I am just going through the steps in an order I think has the best chance of working and also as I said before my command line Linux/UNIX is rusty but I am getting better with each day.
Ubuntu 9.10 - My user is already in the audio group so that is probably why there was no need to create this group and add my account to it.
Reading the CM article it does indeed give 3 command lines to enable real-time support for audio. Do not worry about what they actually are at the moment. I have performed the 3 commands.
It has not changed the way my Ardour wav file test performed but I did notice Ardour stops warning me about memlock limitations. So I guess the above commands are need in general.
Reloading MULAB in Wine however still does the weird sine wav pattern in the System Monitor and my CPU fan still goes wild.
Tomorrow after a consultation with my chickens and if it is OK with them I will spend time with the wineasio stuff
I shall park my motorcycle for tonight, pitch my tent and I will not drink any coffee.
Good night All
OZ
-
TheGuysanIdiot TheGuysanIdiot https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=213066
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 308 posts since 10 Aug, 2009 from United Kingdom
Postcard Number 6
Evening ALL,
Woke up this morning and put out my virtual campfire. Felt really rough this morning and could not concentrate on anything too complex massive headache and felt generally ill probably did not cook the virtual sausages properly last night.
Went to see the chickens and the hens were divided over whether I should get on with the wineasio stuff or tie up some loose ends. After many feathers flying about we all decided to leave the wineasio for the moment and try something less taxing and address the wineasio when I feel better.
So here goes …
One issue that has bugged me so far is the odd behavior of the Linux System Monitor when MULAB loads into Wine. Obviously begs the question do "other" Windows DAWs have a similar effect on the Linux System Monitor.
The second issue is the ASIO driver for Wine. Not well enough to do this yet but will do soon. BUT soundcards can use the multimedia driver stuff, in Windows terms that would be something like MME. MULAB version 2 works with ASIO drivers only. I think Jo has mentioned in this forum that MULAB version 3 may have both types supported (I think I did read that somewhere in this forum, but cannot find the actual forum topic it was in).
If the current MULAB did support the multimedia driver stuff I could have continued to use MULAB in my next test. BUT it does not so I needed to find another DAW that did.
Please read on …
For this test I searched the Internet for a Windows DAW that could do this:
1) Use the multimedia driver by default and have an option to select ASIO
2) Load VSTi instrument TAL Bassline
3) Load VST effect TAL Reverb
4) Work with my MIDI keyboard Axiom 49
5) Runs in a directory tree much like MULAB
6) Not Reaper as Linux tests have been done elsewhere on the web
I found TunaFish by Bram Bos. I quickly tested the demo in Windows and it matched all the above.
Here goes …
With NO changes to the Linux environment since my previous post.
I loaded TunaFish into Linux via Wine. Using the default multimedia driver setting in the DAW.
Loaded the Linux System Monitor and it gave me a flat line CPU of about 10 percent - OK so this tells me that Wine did not have CPU issues like MULAB did. BUT I am not drawing any conclusions here.
Loaded TAL Bassline, CPU flat line at 15 percent
Selected my Axiom 49 from the MIDI tab in the TunaFish
And wait for it …
I pressed C3 on the Axiom 49 MIDI keyboard and it played the TAL Bassline (audio monitors burst into life), CPU at 20 percent.
Loaded TAL Reverb CPU flat line 25 percent.
I then played my Axiom 49 keyboard and also added notes via the sequencer window, CPU 30 - 40 percent.
I then looked at the ASIO tab in TunaFish and it was grayed out. Obviously no ASIO driver on my system yet.
Well what can I say.
Here is one set of tests that proves to me that ubuntu Studio can host a Windows DAW, use the multimedia style driver, load VST/VSTi and support an external MIDI keyboard.
The above result has pleased me immensely.
When I am better I will begin work with wineasio and MULAB.
OZ
Evening ALL,
Woke up this morning and put out my virtual campfire. Felt really rough this morning and could not concentrate on anything too complex massive headache and felt generally ill probably did not cook the virtual sausages properly last night.
Went to see the chickens and the hens were divided over whether I should get on with the wineasio stuff or tie up some loose ends. After many feathers flying about we all decided to leave the wineasio for the moment and try something less taxing and address the wineasio when I feel better.
So here goes …
One issue that has bugged me so far is the odd behavior of the Linux System Monitor when MULAB loads into Wine. Obviously begs the question do "other" Windows DAWs have a similar effect on the Linux System Monitor.
The second issue is the ASIO driver for Wine. Not well enough to do this yet but will do soon. BUT soundcards can use the multimedia driver stuff, in Windows terms that would be something like MME. MULAB version 2 works with ASIO drivers only. I think Jo has mentioned in this forum that MULAB version 3 may have both types supported (I think I did read that somewhere in this forum, but cannot find the actual forum topic it was in).
If the current MULAB did support the multimedia driver stuff I could have continued to use MULAB in my next test. BUT it does not so I needed to find another DAW that did.
Please read on …
For this test I searched the Internet for a Windows DAW that could do this:
1) Use the multimedia driver by default and have an option to select ASIO
2) Load VSTi instrument TAL Bassline
3) Load VST effect TAL Reverb
4) Work with my MIDI keyboard Axiom 49
5) Runs in a directory tree much like MULAB
6) Not Reaper as Linux tests have been done elsewhere on the web
I found TunaFish by Bram Bos. I quickly tested the demo in Windows and it matched all the above.
Here goes …
With NO changes to the Linux environment since my previous post.
I loaded TunaFish into Linux via Wine. Using the default multimedia driver setting in the DAW.
Loaded the Linux System Monitor and it gave me a flat line CPU of about 10 percent - OK so this tells me that Wine did not have CPU issues like MULAB did. BUT I am not drawing any conclusions here.
Loaded TAL Bassline, CPU flat line at 15 percent
Selected my Axiom 49 from the MIDI tab in the TunaFish
And wait for it …
I pressed C3 on the Axiom 49 MIDI keyboard and it played the TAL Bassline (audio monitors burst into life), CPU at 20 percent.
Loaded TAL Reverb CPU flat line 25 percent.
I then played my Axiom 49 keyboard and also added notes via the sequencer window, CPU 30 - 40 percent.
I then looked at the ASIO tab in TunaFish and it was grayed out. Obviously no ASIO driver on my system yet.
Well what can I say.
Here is one set of tests that proves to me that ubuntu Studio can host a Windows DAW, use the multimedia style driver, load VST/VSTi and support an external MIDI keyboard.
The above result has pleased me immensely.
When I am better I will begin work with wineasio and MULAB.
OZ
Last edited by TheGuysanIdiot on Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
TheGuysanIdiot TheGuysanIdiot https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=213066
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 308 posts since 10 Aug, 2009 from United Kingdom
Postcard Number 7
(Please read this postcard as if it was yesterday 10/11/09 - I did not have time to type it up and post it)
Woke up this morning feeling OK but not great remembering that I have a lot of other stuff to do today and could not spend too much time on Linux/MULAB until later today.
So off to the chickens I went. They told me I should read all the wineasio information that I could and follow all the web links that have been added to this forum topic. I thanked them and as I turned to walk off one of the hens shouted at me "Don't be so tight with the mixed corn next time".
OK, I have read a lot of articles etc on the internet and it is clear that there have been successfully trials of running at least two other Windows DAWs in Ubuntu Studio 8.04 using wineasio.
I originally decided to steam ahead with version 9.10 and it is just possible that I am trying to run before I can walk.
I searched Google with "ubuntu studio 9.10 wineasio" hoping to find some answers and on the first page of Google I found a forum topic that looked promising BUT ahhh! it was my own forum topic. So on my Linux journey of discovery I have managed to find myself (sounds very deep and spooky). I had a thought, could this be another me in some kind of parallel universe. Anyway I read his forum topic and he is no further forward than me.
Reading the CM article yet again and looking at the Ubuntu 8.04 download web page where they have a statement recommending this version for production critical machines. I like seeing things such as this it usually means tried, tested and stable. How does MULAB react CPU System Monitor etc in this version?
So what I have done is turn my virtual motorcycle around and have gone back to the junction in the road that had two sign posts one leading to 9.10 the other to 8.04. I will now ride down the 8.04 road but later on in my journey I will probably revisit the 9.10 road.
Also it is becoming increasing clear to me that to make my journey easier I will probably need to connect my IBM PC to the internet via Linux as many of the packages seem to be installed this way, but they probably could also be installed in an offline manner via another PC that was connected to the internet. As I intend following some of the guidelines in the web links that have been added to this forum topic and one such web link has a script that seems to download and install the goodies via the internet for wineasio in 8.04. Even my "not connected to the internet music PCs" are sometimes connected to the internet as you are probably aware some music software needs online authorization. I normally use USB wireless for this in Windows. Reading the CM article yet again, they point out it would be easier initially to connect directly to the broadband router/modem via cable. I have done this many times before when fixing other peoples computers and my router has 4 RJ45 sockets. This is not to say that Linux would not work via USB wireless it is just an easier way for me to get temporarily on the internet.
My goal is different it is not just getting MULAB to run in one type of Linux and one version such as 8.04. It is obvious to me now that I should indeed follow the most documented successful path first before taking on the MULAB/Slackware journey that will come much later.
Each day that passes my understanding of Linux is increasing "the penny drops" kind of thing.
Wherever my journey takes me this basic outline will probably not change:
Linux > Wine > wineasio > MULAB
Or
Linux > Wine > multimedia driver > MULAB V3.x.x (assuming Jo does decide on adding the multimedia style driver option in his Windows build as well as ASIO)
Moving over to present day 11/11/09
Morning ALL,
Just about to burn 8.04 ISO to DVD and have usual audience with chickens.
Talk to you later
OZ
(Please read this postcard as if it was yesterday 10/11/09 - I did not have time to type it up and post it)
Woke up this morning feeling OK but not great remembering that I have a lot of other stuff to do today and could not spend too much time on Linux/MULAB until later today.
So off to the chickens I went. They told me I should read all the wineasio information that I could and follow all the web links that have been added to this forum topic. I thanked them and as I turned to walk off one of the hens shouted at me "Don't be so tight with the mixed corn next time".
OK, I have read a lot of articles etc on the internet and it is clear that there have been successfully trials of running at least two other Windows DAWs in Ubuntu Studio 8.04 using wineasio.
I originally decided to steam ahead with version 9.10 and it is just possible that I am trying to run before I can walk.
I searched Google with "ubuntu studio 9.10 wineasio" hoping to find some answers and on the first page of Google I found a forum topic that looked promising BUT ahhh! it was my own forum topic. So on my Linux journey of discovery I have managed to find myself (sounds very deep and spooky). I had a thought, could this be another me in some kind of parallel universe. Anyway I read his forum topic and he is no further forward than me.
Reading the CM article yet again and looking at the Ubuntu 8.04 download web page where they have a statement recommending this version for production critical machines. I like seeing things such as this it usually means tried, tested and stable. How does MULAB react CPU System Monitor etc in this version?
So what I have done is turn my virtual motorcycle around and have gone back to the junction in the road that had two sign posts one leading to 9.10 the other to 8.04. I will now ride down the 8.04 road but later on in my journey I will probably revisit the 9.10 road.
Also it is becoming increasing clear to me that to make my journey easier I will probably need to connect my IBM PC to the internet via Linux as many of the packages seem to be installed this way, but they probably could also be installed in an offline manner via another PC that was connected to the internet. As I intend following some of the guidelines in the web links that have been added to this forum topic and one such web link has a script that seems to download and install the goodies via the internet for wineasio in 8.04. Even my "not connected to the internet music PCs" are sometimes connected to the internet as you are probably aware some music software needs online authorization. I normally use USB wireless for this in Windows. Reading the CM article yet again, they point out it would be easier initially to connect directly to the broadband router/modem via cable. I have done this many times before when fixing other peoples computers and my router has 4 RJ45 sockets. This is not to say that Linux would not work via USB wireless it is just an easier way for me to get temporarily on the internet.
My goal is different it is not just getting MULAB to run in one type of Linux and one version such as 8.04. It is obvious to me now that I should indeed follow the most documented successful path first before taking on the MULAB/Slackware journey that will come much later.
Each day that passes my understanding of Linux is increasing "the penny drops" kind of thing.
Wherever my journey takes me this basic outline will probably not change:
Linux > Wine > wineasio > MULAB
Or
Linux > Wine > multimedia driver > MULAB V3.x.x (assuming Jo does decide on adding the multimedia style driver option in his Windows build as well as ASIO)
Moving over to present day 11/11/09
Morning ALL,
Just about to burn 8.04 ISO to DVD and have usual audience with chickens.
Talk to you later
OZ
-
- KVRAF
- 13863 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
Indeed, M3 for Windows also supports MME drivers. (output only)TheGuysanIdiot wrote:I think Jo has mentioned in this forum that MULAB version 3 may have both types supported (I think I did read that somewhere in this forum, but cannot find the actual forum topic it was in).
-
- KVRAF
- 7412 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
As far as I'm aware, WINE's MME driver has a larged, fixed latency making unusable for live performance (even when you route it through JACK).
-
TheGuysanIdiot TheGuysanIdiot https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=213066
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 308 posts since 10 Aug, 2009 from United Kingdom
This message is brought to you via Linux Internet stuff.
Started build of Ubuntu Studio 8.04.1 at 11:50AM with my internal network card enabled.
The time is now 12:35PM
OZ
Started build of Ubuntu Studio 8.04.1 at 11:50AM with my internal network card enabled.
The time is now 12:35PM
OZ
-
TheGuysanIdiot TheGuysanIdiot https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=213066
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 308 posts since 10 Aug, 2009 from United Kingdom
Back on my usual internet PC for this message (did not want to stay online via IBM Linux PC as I do not know much about anti-virus or firewall etc for Linux right now).
OK so I can now get on the internet via the IBM PC within Ubuntu Studio 8.04.1!
[pljones] - Yes indeed we need to get wineasio working next.
BUT having a MME option like TunaFish would have enabled MULAB potentially to be used in one way or another without all the ASIO stuff that I have to attempt now.
I am looking at all the positives on my journey and even MULAB loading in Linux using an MME driver must be of use to other users. BUT "live" - NO you are absolutely correct.
Not a postcard just a quick update.
Talk to you soon.
OZ
OK so I can now get on the internet via the IBM PC within Ubuntu Studio 8.04.1!
[pljones] - Yes indeed we need to get wineasio working next.
BUT having a MME option like TunaFish would have enabled MULAB potentially to be used in one way or another without all the ASIO stuff that I have to attempt now.
I am looking at all the positives on my journey and even MULAB loading in Linux using an MME driver must be of use to other users. BUT "live" - NO you are absolutely correct.
Not a postcard just a quick update.
Talk to you soon.
OZ
-
TheGuysanIdiot TheGuysanIdiot https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=213066
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 308 posts since 10 Aug, 2009 from United Kingdom
Postcard Number 8
EDIT - I have removed this section.
OZ
EDIT - I have removed this section.
OZ
Last edited by TheGuysanIdiot on Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
TheGuysanIdiot TheGuysanIdiot https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=213066
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 308 posts since 10 Aug, 2009 from United Kingdom
*** WARNING ***
Evening All,
This wineasio stuff is it legal?
I have just spent some time on the web looking at VST/SDK/Linux etc. To me it does not make for good reading.
Has anyone checked this with Steinberg can the ASIO SDK be used to create binaries etc for Linux.
I have just created a developers account on the Steinberg site to read the licence as best I can. I for one do not understand it fully and have chosen NOT to download the ASIO SDK.
Alarm bells are beginning to ring can anyone clarify what you believe the position is with wineasio?
If wineasio running in Linux is in anyway illegal then this trial is very much dead in the water.
While I am happy to proceed on my journey it is obviously under the condition that it is all legal and above board.
Until I am personally satisfied that it is all OK my journey has to stop.
Anyone got any feedback on this?
PS (Sorry to get all heavy but this is important we must stay within the law).
OZ
Evening All,
This wineasio stuff is it legal?
I have just spent some time on the web looking at VST/SDK/Linux etc. To me it does not make for good reading.
Has anyone checked this with Steinberg can the ASIO SDK be used to create binaries etc for Linux.
I have just created a developers account on the Steinberg site to read the licence as best I can. I for one do not understand it fully and have chosen NOT to download the ASIO SDK.
Alarm bells are beginning to ring can anyone clarify what you believe the position is with wineasio?
If wineasio running in Linux is in anyway illegal then this trial is very much dead in the water.
While I am happy to proceed on my journey it is obviously under the condition that it is all legal and above board.
Until I am personally satisfied that it is all OK my journey has to stop.
Anyone got any feedback on this?
PS (Sorry to get all heavy but this is important we must stay within the law).
OZ
Last edited by TheGuysanIdiot on Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- KVRAF
- 3223 posts since 4 Jan, 2005
yeah i signed up and got a developers account and was never able to get to download the sdk asio.h from steinberg, but i registerd though . i could'nt ever get logged in to download it ??
-
TheGuysanIdiot TheGuysanIdiot https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=213066
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 308 posts since 10 Aug, 2009 from United Kingdom
Hi Todd,
When the Email gets sent to your Email address from Steinberg to activate the account you have to copy the whole link then paste it into a separate web browser window. If you just click on the link via Hotmail etc it does not work. Anyway once you do get in you cannot download the ASIO SDK until you read and accept the licence it is one of those I Agree etc. Also by downloading you are agreeing the terms.
Thanks for your feedback keep the comments coming. It would be good to get this sorted once and for all now, rather than be sorry later.
OZ
When the Email gets sent to your Email address from Steinberg to activate the account you have to copy the whole link then paste it into a separate web browser window. If you just click on the link via Hotmail etc it does not work. Anyway once you do get in you cannot download the ASIO SDK until you read and accept the licence it is one of those I Agree etc. Also by downloading you are agreeing the terms.
Thanks for your feedback keep the comments coming. It would be good to get this sorted once and for all now, rather than be sorry later.
OZ