KVR Audio

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:48 am

What is the debate, really? Let's paint a picture: final signal is not quantized, not digitized, etc. It's in the analog domain. Yes, OK. OK. And, it is generated by digital process. OK. All agree on this. So, what's the debate?

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:58 am

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:04 am

Some people may indeed think that. But after all, even DSI doesn't make any false statements, just tends to not mention the fact that the all analog signal is controlled by digital means, unlike a -voltage- controlled analog oscillator. In short, there is not much to argue about. All agree that there are many differences in the signal itself between one that has digital control involved and one that has voltage control. Can't expect DSI to mention that everywhere, and whoever doesn't do some learning, has only themselves to blame for thinking they're getting something different.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:12 am

Dogboy73 · Post by **Dogboy73** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:13 pm

Whilst everyone has been discussing DCO's, VCO's, waveshapers, timing pulses etc. I've been busy knocking up another Tetra vid (#4) with some more sounds from the factry sound bank (featuring more of my splendid chops!!!

)

fac · Post by **fac** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:46 pm

Dogboy73 wrote:Whilst everyone has been discussing DCO's, VCO's, waveshapers, timing pulses etc. I've been busy knocking up another Tetra vid (#4) with some more sounds from the factry sound bank (featuring more of my splendid chops!!! )

Bah. How boring. Who wants to make music when you can discuss stuff only 17 people in the world care about, over and over again.

Plus I think it's clear from your video that the analogness of the DCOs multiplied by the resolution of the sample ratio of the low frequency EGs results in a slop factor 0.99937% warmer than in the previous models, which is probably the reason you bought the Tetra, isn't it?

Nice video, btw.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:11 pm

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:44 pm

fac · Post by **fac** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:41 am

ghettosynth wrote:
If you're talking about your own boring diatribes and pedantic definitions, ...

1.- you don't get sarcasm very much, do you? maybe next time I should use an emoticon to make it obvious.

2.- "my" definitions are standard definitions which you can find in classic signal processing books, like Oppenheim's or Proakis'.

3.- your own definitions are no less pedantic than my own. The exception is that the definitions I use are unambiguous and well-supported.

4.- you call me pedantic, but it is you who comes here as the owner of the absolute truth, saying I'm the only person in the world who thinks a DCO signal is analog, whereas everyone else thinks otherwise (e.g., they think like you). I've never underestimated your knowledge or experience like you have mine.

I do agree with you that this whole discussion is pedantic... especially because neither you or I will apparently ever agree on this matter. My previous post was meant to acknowledge that, but ghettosynth took it as an opportunity for further attacks. Honestly, I couldn't care less about "the polyphonic VCO experience", so I'm out.

Oh, and please.... say "knock yourself out" just one more time, pleeease?

toine6 · Post by **toine6** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:14 am

I actually have enjoyed the conversation, no need for it to turn to where people are fed up with each other. It's an interesting perspective from both sides of the issue.

I've never played VCO's, but own a Juno 6, Korg EX-8000, Roland JX-10 and JX-8P, and a Mopho and I'm told I don't own a real analog synth, yet, am also told the analog filters make a big difference blah blah... Whatever slight difference there may be, it's not enough to make me care. I'll probably buy a VCO synth at some point, just so I can say.. Ok, it's still no big deal (to me). The differences are subtle, and all I care about is finding cool sounds, or different flavors. But it's fun to listen to people that get excited about it talk anyway. I've enjoyed the thread, I hope it continues.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:29 am

toine6 wrote:I actually have enjoyed the conversation, no need for it to turn to where people are fed up with each other. It's an interesting perspective from both sides of the issue.

I've never played VCO's, but own a Juno 6, Korg EX-8000, Roland JX-10 and JX-8P, and a Mopho and I'm told I don't own a real analog synth, yet, am also told the analog filters make a big difference blah blah... Whatever slight difference there may be, it's not enough to make me care. I'll probably buy a VCO synth at some point, just so I can say.. Ok, it's still no big deal (to me). The differences are subtle, and all I care about is finding cool sounds, or different flavors. But it's fun to listen to people that get excited about it talk anyway. I've enjoyed the thread, I hope it continues.

I'll go a step further and tell you to listen to all the old synths from early Pink Floyd and ELP records. Not really impressive IMO. I never wanted a synth until I heard what was going on with them in the 80s anyway.

toine6 · Post by **toine6** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:41 am

zerocrossing wrote: I'll go a step further and tell you to listen to all the old synths from early Pink Floyd and ELP records. Not really impressive IMO. I never wanted a synth until I heard what was going on with them in the 80s anyway.

Yeah, well I appreciate each era, and could find a use for all of them, but yeah, old bare bones Mini-Moog 70's music, compared to the better 80's synth music, leaves a lot to be desired. I love the synth sound from Sweet Dreams, and so many others... 80's synth's really sounded classy, where 70's synth's sounded a bit more rough around the edges. Again, I like both, but 80's was a higher pinnacle in beautiful synth sounds, on the whole, to me. But I like nice VA's too, so shoot me.

fac · Post by **fac** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:50 am

toine6 wrote:I actually have enjoyed the conversation, no need for it to turn to where people are fed up with each other. It's an interesting perspective from both sides of the issue.

I was enjoying it as well, really. Two points of view with plenty of support from both sides. I would gladly continue the discussion but not when people start calling me "pedantic" just because I support my opinion with theory and definitions, or when people suggest I'm ignorant just because I happen to believe what DSI says about their synths is no marketing crap but an honest truth.

I know there could be arguments in favor of ghettosynth's opinion (I can even think of a few myself). His sees things from an "electronics" point of view, whereas I see it from a signal processing point of view. Neither point of view is less valid than the other; however, he does not seem to acknowledge anything else than his own perspective, and in particular keeps ignoring that any logic circuit outputs an analog voltage signal, which is only "digital" by convention... e.g., when you assign a logic 0 to any voltage below 2V and a logic 1 when it's above 2V. But this convention only makes sense if you use the circuit for actual digital operations (e.g., logic gates, binary operations, etc), none of which is performed with the pulse output of the DCO's frequency divider. Instead, the pulse signal is integrated to obtain a sawtooth which is later distorted into a triangle waveform. It's a very "think-outside-the-box" design, if you ask me.

toine6 · Post by **toine6** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:56 am

The funniest part of the day, is where I looked up "pedantic", to make sure I understood it in it's entirety.

Pedantic: 2. overly concerned with minute details or formalisms.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:35 am

Tetra... Prophet 08 rack or something else?