Tetra... Prophet 08 rack or something else?

[ghettosynth]

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[Rangtangtang]

yes you could build a few different oscilators. I was concerned about the number of modules I might need, but I think Iv soughted that one out and fingers crossed. You may not need to buy anything vintage or expensive, you could simply just build a few things, though one or two vintage things help. Don't forget you might also need a midi-to-CV converter also if your going to build your very own oscilator and you can build or buy those too

[justin3am]

Ahh, the hardware version of collecting unused plugins, collecting unstuffed CGS boards.

Well, I finished my matrix mixer, wave multiplier and steiner filter.

I built the Steiner as well. Now that's an interesting and dirty filter. From what I've read, you really can't get rid of the irritating noise (sounds like pot noise) when you're changing the resonance. I've been working on improving that because it drives me nuts.

How did yours fair?

Pretty much the same, I just figured it was due to personal ineptitude. My Livewire Frequensteiner doesn't do that though, unfortunately I don't have the skills necessary to figure out what Mike changed in the design.

[Dogboy73]

All this talk of DCOs v. VCOs complete ignores the fact that choosing a synth is different for everyone. We're all looking/listening for different things and it's difficult to describe the characteristics that are important to us. If I had the budget to buy any polysynth, I'd build a Buchla 200e based on 4 261e Oscs (DCOs!!!) over a CS80 in a heart beat and I've used a CS80. That is just me though.

I would have bought a Yamaha CS80 myself. But I didn't want to have to re-mortgage my house to be able to afford it + I'm not strong enough to carry it up the stairs to my modest little studio that it would not fit into anyway! So in the end I had to settle for the Tetr4, although having read all the discussion & watched the videos Ghetto posted (which did a very good job of completely rubbishing the Tetr4) I now conceed that I made the wrong choice in the Tetr4. Damn DCO, analogue signal path piece of un-animated junk that it is! More videos coming soon

[Dogboy73]

Good overview of the Prophet 08 here;



I thought this was relevent because he talks about how people argue endlessley on discussion boards about different chip types, just like we are on here

[zerocrossing]

I'll go a step further and tell you to listen to all the old synths from early Pink Floyd and ELP records. Not really impressive IMO. I never wanted a synth until I heard what was going on with them in the 80s anyway.

You didn't find Kraftwerk impressive?

Music: Yes. Sound: No

Donna Summer, I feel love?

No

Midnight Express soundtrack?

Don't know it.

Tangerine Dream?

Not at all. In fact, I hate Tangerine Dream and I can't figure out the fascination so many people seem to have for them. I also hate Vangelis.

BTW, when I said "Listen to early Pink Floyd..." I meant listen to the synths, not the music. I love Pink Floyd, I just don't consider any of the sounds, including the famous arpeggio run on Dark Side of The Moon, to be superior to what's happening with music now. Guitars on the other hand... I always found Gilmore's guitar sound to be great.

The first time I found myself interested in synths was after the release of Laurie Anderson's Big Science record... or maybe it was King Crimson's Discipline album. Around that time. Until then I found them to sound gimmicky and cheesey. Part of it was the use and not the sound, but IMO really great sounds started being used in electronica of the 90s. Not that I dig techno or it's cousins, but the sounds used are often phenomenal. VCO, DCO, who cares? Oh right, you do. I don't. Sure, if I won the lottery I'd end up with a Andromeda or something in my studio, but until then I'll have to get by with what's possible.

[zerocrossing]

zerocrossing, I've heard a couple of you tracks and I know a little bit about you taste in synths via interaction around the forum... if you like the Mopho, chances are, you won't be disappointed by the '08 or the Tetra. That said there is no guarantee, they may not click for you for some unquantifiable reason. For example, the only DSI/SCI synths I've gotten along with are the Evolver/Poly Evolver, though I've used a Pro-one, Prophet 5 rev2 and 3, Mopho, Prophet '08 and Six-Trak. That isn't to say that any of those are bad synths, they just weren't for me.

If you are averse to vintage analogs your options for a poly analog are limited... you've got your Andromedas and Studio Electronics level synths, then you have your Vermona and DSI level synths and that's about it. If you don't mind getting an older synth, you might want to consider the Akai AX60 or a Crumar or Teisco synth in addition to the usual Roland/Korg/SCI synths.

All this talk of DCOs v. VCOs complete ignores the fact that choosing a synth is different for everyone. We're all looking/listening for different things and it's difficult to describe the characteristics that are important to us. If I had the budget to buy any polysynth, I'd build a Buchla 200e based on 4 261e Oscs (DCOs!!!) over a CS80 in a heart beat and I've used a CS80. That is just me though.

I won't tell you what you should buy but I if you are gonna spend >a few hundred dollars, I will recommend that you do a month or two of research. Locate the synths you are interested in and test them out if you can.

Thanks Justin. That post was level headed and thoughtful. WTF are you doing here on KVR? I don't know of the Vermona, I'll check it out and look into the others you mentioned. BTW, the tracks I have posted are all from a time when my only synth was the very digital Ensoniq TS-10. I wasn't ever super into it's sound but it did a lot for the price and virtual instruments weren't up to par at that point in time. I needed a full on work station and that was the one in my price range, so of course compromises are made.

Also, I just want to say that if I haven't said this before, I always love your tracks both for their musicality and sonic qualities. I don't know what you use but the end result is always great.

[zerocrossing]

Hey, I'm reading this debate about Dave Smith saying his latest synths have "a 100% analog signal path." but they use DCOs instead of VCOs. A DCO's output is still considered analog right?

It can be. It also can be digital and then converted. A DCO refers ONLY to how the frequency of the oscillator is controlled. It takes a digital 'word' and then puts that through an A/D convertor to derive an analog control voltage which with high resolution can get you very close to a well tempered scale. There's an old way to do it which begs the question if the output is really analog. An analog controlled oscillator continually updated a charge on a capacitor and that charge represented the control voltage. You could probably do that a whole lot better to avoid 'droop', with today's technology but why bother?

Thought I'd though this into the mix. This guy does a lot of electronics design for LucasFilm, PlayMates Toys and a million others. (he did the guts to the Darth Vader voice changer mask) He was buying 16 bit DACs back at a time when he had to get a background check because they were military spec. He's also a great musician. Anyway, if there's a guy who knows this sh*it, it's him.

[Dogboy73]

DSI TETR4 (part 5)

[ghettosynth]

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[ghettosynth]

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[zerocrossing]

That's a different point, if your limitation is money then no amount of discussion will help.

Good, this thread is giving me a headache and I'm not sure I'm learning anything of immediate use.

I respect your knowledge of instruments but I don't think that I can use it in any meaningful way at this point. The Vermona sounds good to me, but not appreciatively better than the DSI stuff (just going by mp3 samples) so perhaps the subtle difference is lost on me and the lack of preset memory puts the Vermona in the category of interesting toy. Am I really going to have to design my patch from scratch each time I use it? What? Did we lose a war?

So whether or not the DCO of a DSI instrument is truly analog or not, I'll say that for my definition all I truly care about is the quality of the output. Hell, I love the sound of a lot of VAs and like you said, in plug-in form they dodge a lot of limitations of DSI boxes and frankly, all dedicated hardware instruments. I sold my VAs (Virus C, Korg MS2000, Roland Sh-32, Micron...) because they didn't provide what I consider to be a significantly better output to what I get out of software. I even have a friend who brings over his Prophet '08 every now and then and I thought, "oh, compared to my plugs there didn't seem to be a very noticeable difference during our jam sessions. Lots of good sounds came from both hardware and software.

Then the MoPho came out and for $400 I thought, "let me have a peek at that." The demo tracks sounded great to my ears and I figured my aging laptop could benefit from a little yellow helper. I found myself really digging it especially for some of the more agressive and crazy stuff I was able to get out of it using it's feedback. Lots say it's over the top except at the lowest settings, but to them I say, "BRING IT." I love the sound of something breaking.

When I started this thread it was because my wife thought it would be nice to reward me for something I just did. Not to go into the painful detail (trust me, it would make you wince), but I did something very "ballsy" recently that would probably deserve an Andromeda as a thank you, but it also corresponded to my game studio going bust so we had to aim a bit lower. Like my friend Cindy says, "Money changes everything."

So at this point, even if I found out the Tetr4 used dog poop to generate its sound it's as good as it's going to get for me, and I'm not sad. In fact, I'm pretty excited. I'm a lucky man and every tool can be a weapon if you hold it right.

[ghettosynth]

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[Uncle E]

The Vermona sounds good to me, but not appreciatively better than the DSI stuff (just going by mp3 samples) so perhaps the subtle difference is lost on me

No, you're correct that the sound isn't significantly better, the Vermona and other VCO synths in its price range just aren't as good as the classics. Even the Little Phatty or ATC-1, though better than the Vermona, aren't on par with a Voyager or Andromeda.

[ghettosynth]

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