KVR Audio

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:26 am

Here is another example. Two voltage controlled oscillators, one 2-pole filter. It should give a solid aural explanation of a few more of the major differences between VCO and DCO synths.
Again, MIDI file included. Just one track this time, so a comparison would be much quicker to do.

2VCO 2Pole
2VCO 2Pole MIDI

Dogboy73 · Post by **Dogboy73** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:59 am

ghettosynth wrote:The Neptune 2 is a fat sounding synth BTW. You might not want to let that get too close to the Tetra, the Tetra may end up getting bruised...or worse.

It does sound okay but it's extremely limited compared to what the TETR4 is capable off. It does what it does & I suppose it does it well. But I like the fact it's a straight up no noncense analogue monosynth with no patch memory. This has actually made it more interesting for me because I've had to spend more time programming it to get my sounds. I like the purity & simplicity of the Neptune 2 + it sounds pretty good as well.

Unfortunately it's not without it's problems. When triggered from a sequencer/keyboard notes will bum out making it next to useless in some instances. I think this is all down to the built in MIDI > CV converter, which sounds like it basically just can't keep up with what's going on! I've had some discusssions with the company regarding this & also another Neptune 2 owner who was a lot more up on the electronics side of things than I am. He carried out a 'fix' for the issue supplied by Spectral Audio. Unfortunately it didn't make much difference & he sold his Neptune 2. I don't think this is a problem on later models. Other owners tell me they don't have a problem at all.

It's a shame because, as you say, the Neptune 2 is a pretty fat sounding synth. Just a shame it doesn't work properly. Welcome to the world of analogue synthesis in the modern domain! It didn't work that well way back when and, at least for my introduction, it doesn't always work that well now! There's was me thinking that buying a brand new fully analogue synth would avoid this kind of thing. Should have bought that SH-101 with the noisy broken sliders, missing pots & keys that didn't work!

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:25 am

Dogboy73 · Post by **Dogboy73** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:31 am

ghettosynth wrote:In fairness, however, not all modern VCO synths with built in midi/cv converters have that problem Anything by future retro, among others, will be solid.

According to some people I've heard from on YouTube & the Neptune 2 Yahoo! Group they don't have this problem. It only effects models below a certain serial number. For me this means Spectral Audio are aware there is an issue & I think should offer something for users of older models to gte it sorted out. All we've had so far is a PDF showing a fix, which apparently doesn't work anyway. Still, they are only a small company & I guess have limited support for this type of thing

Well, it should work, you're right. Midi/cv is a well understood process these days and there's no excuse to get it wrong. You could always use an external converter or even a dc coupled audio interface with something like volta (if you're on a mac).

I did think about trying a seperate MIDI>CV converter to see how that goes. Would also be interesting to use a CV input for control instead of MIDI. I did think about an MFB analogue sequencer to trigger the Neptune 2. Volta looks very interesting as well but I'm not on Mac. I suppose I could use the Peff method. Very cool this especially being a Reason user myself;

Dogboy73 · Post by **Dogboy73** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:27 pm

..... here's another one from Peff using Reason to control his TB-303. Got to love this guy

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:38 am

SWAN808 wrote:I thought you prefered Olga and could not tell the difference between that and the 'analogue magic' of the Mopho? Im interested why you are now considering an analogue poly-synth...

No, I never said I preferred Olga, but I said that Olga "breaks" in a good way that is similar in quality to how the MoPho breaks. The two kind of reminded me of each other a bit in that way, but I thought the MoPho had enough of its own thing going on to warrant a purchase.

I ended up liking the MoPho more and more over time.

Maybe that was the analog magic creeping in... although I'm told that it's not even a real analog synth, so I guess that's that. From what I've gleaned from this thread analog magic only happens after $2000 and since that's out of the question I'll have to pretend it doesn't exist and just continue enjoying the instruments I can afford.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:30 am

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:39 am

Dogboy73 · Post by **Dogboy73** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:29 am

ghettosynth wrote:
Dogboy73 wrote:..... here's another one from Peff using Reason to control his TB-303. Got to love this guy

Ok, so once you're ok taking care of the scale and offset yourself you can do that with any number of software environments so long as you have a dc coupled sound card. I use reaktor to do it. What volta does is take care of the tuning for you. I don' find it that hard to adjust a scale and offset and in reaktor it's dead trivial to add them.

Interesting. I'd like to look into this idea more. Erm .... what exactly is a DC coupled sound card? Obviously I know what a sound card is but I'm a bit lost on the DC couple bit. Being a Reason user myself it would be fantastic if I could control the Neptune 2 using a method like Kurt is in these vids.

Dogboy73 · Post by **Dogboy73** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:39 am

ghettosynth wrote:Ok, mopho is monophonic. As much as I don't like the DSI sound I think that at least the Tetra is polyphonic which means that there's not a lot of competition in that price range that has real VCOs and a nice filter. For monophonic synths, however, there are all kinds of alternatives for very reasonable prices.

I think we discussed ellswhere that there is nothing analogue in the TETR4's price range that's polyphonic be it DCO or VCO. For any kind of analogue polysynth in that price range you really have to go old school. Would be nice to have an old classic synth but I don't really want the hassle of servicing/fixing if & when the need arises. I wouldn't know where to start! I just end up with a broken synth! Also I have to say that I'm loving the TETR4 more & more the longer I'm spending with it. It's sonic capabilities & sound design scope are more than I'd hoped for when buying it. I'm very, very pleased with it.

But I must admit I often get drawn back to old school analogue stuff from time to time. I've bid on loads of old synths on e-bay over the years but, given my concerns stated above, have always backed off once the bidding started really picking up. I was very close to winning a Roland RS-505 last year. I wanted it just for the string sound (I don't think it does much else) but as the price went over £500 I started to think, 'do I really want to buy a synth that's as old as I am just for the string sound?'. The answer was almost yes but good sense prevailed in the end. I also missed out on several Roland SH-101's as the price (for a good condition example) often went well over £300 & sometimes much, much more.

EDIT: There's a Roland RS-505 on e-bay right now. The seller wants $1,640 for it! Have you got 2, mate?!

Stupidly price Roland RS-505 on e-bay

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:56 pm

OK, let's wheel it in a bit toward the original topic, shall we?

I've got a handle on a used Prophet '08 rack that brings it into the same price as the Tetr4. Now I'm scratching my head. I'm keeping the MoPho, that's for sure. So...

Prophet 098 rack or Tetr4? Here are the pros and cons that I can easily see. I wish I could demo them next to each other but that doesn't seem in the cards. This is me thinking out loud until I can get back into town and actually play these beasts.

Prophet 08:

Pros:

8 voice

Lot's of knobs for twiddling. (but known for going bad?)

Cons:

No Sub OSC

No Feedback

Tetr4:

Pros:

2 Sub OSC per voice

Feedback (programmable per voice! Shame on you MoPho! )

Small Size

Cons:

Only 4 voice (probably enough though)

Not much of a UI to speak of, basically software for patch designing- should get around to downloading a Novation template for this but still not the same as dedicated hardware knobs)

I already have a MoPho with sub oscs and feedback

So that's my current state'o mind. I'm leaning toward the Prophet now because I think it'll be fun to have a hardware UI for a change and I probably won't miss the sub oscs since I already have it in the MoPho and I'm thinking this synth will probably be more for pads and "fill" sounds.

I looked at other stuff in the $800 range and I'm coming up with not much. Blowfeld sounds too much like Largo, which I like but don't need more of. One of the things I like most about the DSI stuff is it has a sound that's pretty different from my VAs. Now, if someone wants to sell me an Andromeda for $800 because they think I'm a swell guy, I'll rethink the above.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:32 am

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:36 am

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:46 am

Dogboy73 · Post by **Dogboy73** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:31 am

zerocrossing wrote:So that's my current state'o mind. I'm leaning toward the Prophet now because I think it'll be fun to have a hardware UI for a change and I probably won't miss the sub oscs since I already have it in the MoPho and I'm thinking this synth will probably be more for pads and "fill" sounds.

If you can get the second hand P08 at the same price as a new TETR4 then I'd go for it for sure.

ghettosynth wrote:
Dogboy73 wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:Ok, mopho is monophonic. As much as I don't like the DSI sound I think that at least the Tetra is polyphonic which means that there's not a lot of competition in that price range that has real VCOs and a nice filter. For monophonic synths, however, there are all kinds of alternatives for very reasonable prices.
I think we discussed ellswhere that there is nothing analogue in the TETR4's price range that's polyphonic be it DCO or VCO.
Not new for sure. But there are plenty of polyphonic DCO synths that cost much less than the Tetra and at least two VCO polysynths that regularly go for less, the Prophet 600 and the Chroma Polaris. I don't recommend either.

Definitely not new. Plenty of new analogue mono synths around. Some really good stuff as well (my current gear lust is for the Analogue solutions Telemark). But there aren't any companies that I've come across, apart from DSI, that are making new analogue polysynths.

I'd never heard of the Chroma Polaris before. Looks & sounds interesting. Less than a new TETR4 though? Where are you seing this bargain priced old gear for sale?! It can't be on e-bay surely?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fender-Rhodes-Chr ... 439b91c059

There are numerous single VCO polysynths that regularly go for much less.

Cool. Could you name some? I'd like to check some of these out myself.

Tetra... Prophet 08 rack or something else?