M drummer

[cransky]

Hi,

Great product, I am quite surprised at the sound quality and how it works with the basic kit.

Interesting it tends to build the sound, eg ride cymbal the more you hit it like a real brass cymbal. None of the drum emulator programs I've heard do this and the hi-hats are in fact quite realistic in their performance.

I was wondering regarding a message that says a "random white noise" would be heard. As of yet I have not heard this and I hope not to, since I am using the demonstration program and it is quite impressive, in particular things like re-sizable GUI, which even if not implemented in the host are fully supported as per specification.

The above point in particular gives me confidence that standards are being observed.

Regarding the future of this application, it says x64 support, does this mean more memory can be used, eg does VST 2.4 allow more than the 4GB limit to be addressed internally for each application, including host and plug in's?

Also, will Melda Production be implementing VST3?

One more thing, I really like the fact there is a mixer on board but why doesn't it allow you to build up soloed tracks, eg., kick and snare only at the same time.

Thanks and regards.

[MeldaProduction]

Hi there,

thank you very much!

And to you questions:
1) Random white noise - it is only in "demo" version of course, not in Small or Large versions. And honestly it is so silent, that you probably won't hear it .

2) 64-bit version - MDrummer 3.00 (all editions) installer lets you choose if you want 32-bit or 64-bit installation. 64-bit version is available for 64-bit Windows and 64-bit hosts only of course. It is not related to VST version, it is more like a "system kernel" thingy.
Anyway if you use 32-bit host, you have to use 32-bit version. If you use 64-bit host you should use 64-bit version, because most better host have some kind of "emulator" for 32-bit plugins, so they provide backward compatibility, but usually these emulators are not reliable at all. And they are slow.

Regarding memory capabilities - 32-bit applications have limit of 2GB per application including plugins, which may be a problem if you use some huge instruments with bad caching (which is not MDrummer case). However there is another trouble - even if you have enough memory, the system tends to remove things from it and place it onto your HDD, so it may slow down your system. So if you don't disable virtual memory, you may get performance degradation. Using 64-bit applications can definitely help it. Also 64-bit platform offers some additional "technical assets", which may make the applications run faster - but honestly, since the code size is much bigger due to these "assets", I don't believe it would be much noticable.

3) VST3 - yes, in the future, but honestly there are many technical problems (mostly on the end-user side) when going for the VST3 and the income is minimal. In fact I think it would bring absolutely nothing for MDrummer. So far I think VST3 would be useful for plugins with a sidechain, but that's it.

4) Mixer - the integrated mixer is more like a shortcut for the drumset editor, it is not intended to be a full-featured mixer, since you already have one in your host and that one lets you use VST effects etc.

Cheers!

[cransky]

Hi and thank you for writing.

Would I be correct to think that 64 bit is only in relation to the standalone application of MDrummer, and not the plug-in, eg., the VST version is only 32 bit and therefore can only use 2GB as you say with the host using a theoretical 4GB in total?

About the mixer, I guess that may be something of a feature request since as I understand Cubase, it (steinberg) does not have a midi mixer and host solo/mute is of little use, particularly with drum emulator plug in's such as this since you cannot solo midi tracks and their corresponding outputs are soloed as well.

What I was hoping was for Melda to be the first of it's kind to implement an internal mixer page, since so many functions in MDrummer are truly unique I believe this would make it more well-rounded as an application and add to the already vast array of features.

Many regards.

[MeldaProduction]

Would I be correct to think that 64 bit is only in relation to the standalone application of MDrummer, and not the plug-in, eg., the VST version is only 32 bit and therefore can only use 2GB as you say with the host using a theoretical 4GB in total?

No! 64-bit is a mode of some modern processors, which allows accesing up to some TB memory, adds several resources for the processor (new instructions, registers, faster calling conventions...). MDrummer standalone 64-bit will obviously run this way. But if your host is 64-bit, you can (and should) use 64-bit VST plugin, which will run natively.

The biggest trouble is 64-bit host + 32-bit plugin. In these cases the host has to use a pretty complicated and extremely unstable scheme to support them. You don't need to know the technical stuff, just that it is ALWAYS good to use the same mode of host and plugin (both 32-bit or both 64-bit).

About the mixer, I guess that may be something of a feature request since as I understand Cubase, it (steinberg) does not have a midi mixer and host solo/mute is of little use, particularly with drum emulator plug in's such as this since you cannot solo midi tracks and their corresponding outputs are soloed as well.

Yes, but you can use MDrummerConfig to specify number of output audio channels for MDrummer. Then you can send different drums into different audio channels (like grouping them) and use the audio mixer in your host to do whatever you want to do and this is much more powerful than MIDI mixing.

What I was hoping was for Melda to be the first of it's kind to implement an internal mixer page, since so many functions in MDrummer are truly unique I believe this would make it more well-rounded as an application and add to the already vast array of features.
Many regards.

Thanks . Anyway what you think about the audio outputs idea?

[cransky]

About the mixer, I guess that may be something of a feature request since as I understand Cubase, it (steinberg) does not have a midi mixer and host solo/mute is of little use, particularly with drum emulator plug in's such as this since you cannot solo midi tracks and their corresponding outputs are soloed as well.

Yes, but you can use MDrummerConfig to specify number of output audio channels for MDrummer. Then you can send different drums into different audio channels (like grouping them) and use the audio mixer in your host to do whatever you want to do and this is much more powerful than MIDI mixing.

Thanks . Anyway what you think about the audio outputs idea?

Well, honestly I don't really like mixing in the DAW if it can be avoided and would rather use summing along the way, since steinberg products especially are quite adept at this (the latter) method and IMV it's way more logical than having mega amounts of tracks, which by all accounts I have anyway, specifically in relation to MIDI, so anything I can do to cut down on ambiguity is a plus I feel, especially when composing and if the feature existed I'd use it instead of the DAW mixer, since it (cubase) is buggy as many would know and is really a half-baked implementation.

As an example take the Fruity wrapper it lets you use vst effects even when instantiated as a plug in, not that I'd be wanting to go that far, because I can only see problems doing that, but a simple solo/mute in a drum plug in would really help as in Steinberg there is no solo/mute in the drum map, let alone volume and/or pan.

Thank you & regards.

[MeldaProduction]

Hmm, I was always satisfied with Cubase mixer, though with CPU usage you are obviously right. Nevermind just please tell me what features would you like, so I can check how easy that would be to put into MDrummer.

[stupeT]

Well, honestly I don't really like mixing in the DAW if it can be avoided and would rather use summing along the way, since steinberg products especially are quite adept at this (the latter) method and IMV it's way more logical than having mega amounts of tracks, which by all accounts I have anyway, specifically in relation to MIDI, so anything I can do to cut down on ambiguity is a plus I feel, especially when composing and if the feature existed I'd use it instead of the DAW mixer, since it (cubase) is buggy as many would know and is really a half-baked implementation.

Some tasks are not a matter of taste, though.

What if you would like to add some reverb to your toms, but the SAME reverb as you use for the voice to make it feel like real ambience?

What if you would like to make bass and bass drum pumping alltogether by ducking the compressor of the bass by the bass drum?

What if you want to hear that special reverbplugin just on your snare?

Anyway: I made a template for my DAW to load MDrummer into 8 tracks. And MDrummer also remembers which drumparts should go to which channel! Works like a charm

Cheers

[cransky]

Hi StupeT,

I don't think it's a matter of "taste" but rather choice, which currently I don't have, not in the plug in, nor in the application I use.

If we consider for a second Cubase, and how there is a drum map, straight away we see the program is like no other in its' flexibility of use and personally I will never use any other DAW simply due to this one feature alone, as it makes programming rhythm parts so easy but in some areas it is very lacking, eg, no MIDI mixer which I was hoping could be implemented in a program like this.

[MeldaProduction]

Well as I said, I'm not against talking about it, but I need to know, what features would you like exactly.

[cransky]

Hi there,

I thought I was making clear what I was thinking, but maybe I should explain more.

MDrummer as I am discovering is a very open sounding drum sample workstation, capable to operating with any kind of signature or tempo, firstly that I find is very far ahead of anything I've tried previously, but as I am using Cubase for instance what I find often is programming is no simple endavor and what I always find myself wanting to do is simple volume changes from the source in stereo, rather than having an elaborate mix setup in the DAW.

Put very simply, what I saw when I looked at the mixer page was a few buttons that made the samples play back as well as mute/solo but immediately I realized it wasn't a mute/solo function which intuitively I would want as it did not provide any kind of grouping, which from my point of view I think it should so I can very easily solo say hi-hat, kick & snare and everything else is silent, without having to do anything outside the plug in, ie give more meaning to the term "drum workstation".

Of course when muting it would be nice to hear the bleed and would give an overall more realistic feel, but still it is sonically an extremely good product and I wonder just how the samples have been made.

Thank you

[MeldaProduction]

Thanks!
So generally you just need grouping, right? Well, question is how to do that, I mean GUI. Main question - would it be enough for each drum to be in a single group? If not, please try to figure out, how would you like to control it.

[cransky]

Hi,

I know it's more complicated than meets the eye, but it's not really groups parse that I'm asking for but rather a grouping function, eg, not having to mute things to achieve the desired result.

Thanks again

[MeldaProduction]

Well, it didn't really answer to my question

[cransky]

Hi,

I'm doing my best but I'm in no way a programmer and have no conceptual knowledge of programming languages. The closest I come is XML drum maps, which is partly what I am talking about, since it is the inherent lack of features in the Steinberg product (albeit the best music product system on the planet) that I am asking Mdrummer people to fill in the gap(s).

If I may try again...


What I am asking for I guess is a simple way to solo things together, as a single group, not sub-groups as I think was being implied. Of course that (sub groups) would be totally awesome and then send those to the output busses but remember I am using only a stereo system so a single group configuration is what I am attempting to describe, similar but opposite to how you can mute sources to achieve the desired result, even though there is no "bleed".

Yours

[cransky]

ok you press unmute, ok so it can be done, that's cool I obviously have a mute/solo mentality

Thanks for all the replies.