Close micing live drums?

[boziot]

Hello all,

I must beg your patience if this particular subject has been covered before. If so, please be gentle and just nudge me in the right direction; I've attempted multiple searches and have not uncovered any info that answers my particular questions:

I am a drummer. I already own all the mics and cables needed to close mic my entire drum kit. I wish to teach myself how to record decent live drum tracks in my new home studio. I researched and finally decided that the Onyx 1640 firewire/Tracktion 3 combo provided the most bang for the buck for my application. I get up to 16 tracks of simultaneous recording (my kit requires 9), 96Khz/24bit, phantom power for my overhead condensers, etc. I have already experimented with decent results.

My questions concern the Mackie plug-in preset filters for the drums. I have noticed that the presets have many pre-configured channel strips labeled 'snare,' 'kick,' 'overheads,' etc. Are these configurations worthwhile? Are they a good starting point for some noob (like myself) who has zero experience committing decent drum sounds to hard drive?

Should I start by recording the drums dry without any channel strips added? Perhaps I should only attempt using the presets during the editing process.

What about channel bleed? Should I record my drums with a compressor filter added to minimize channel bleed?

Thanks in advance for any help

Boz

[bk]

If you're recording 24 bit resolution I don't see any reason to use processing during the initial recording stage. If you're using Tracktion to record, there's not really a way to do that anyway, unless you have hardware boxes in front of the Onyx mixer. I would use mic positioning to mimimize bleed if necessary, but remember, bleed is one of the things that makes it sound like a real drum kit in a real room.

I would get things sounding as good as possible without processing, then insert FX all you want at the mixing stage.

[BushmasterM4]

Agree. Record them dry and mess with compression and other effects after recording. The standard presets on the plugins are a good starting point, but you have to remember these presets were made with the input gain at a different level than what your recording at. So its always best to load the preset, back off the input gain of the plugin and then slowly raise it to where you see/hear the effect working. On compressors I always back off the "Threashold" and then lower it until I see it working and it produces the effect I want. But, yes, presets can be a good staring point. But the gain/threshold levels will need adjusted.

[IIRs]

Hi Boziot.

First thing to realise is that Tracktion applies plug-ins non-destructively, so it doesn't actually make any difference whether you load up the plugs before or after you record: either way you will end up with dry recordings direct from the pre-amps, which is what you want. I suggest you record 24 bit audio, but don't worry about high sample rates for now; stick to 44.1 or 48KHz.

I created many of the presets in the Mackie plugs, but I would be wary of using them until you have at least a basic grasp of what they are actually doing and how to adjust them: your kick drum recording may be nothing like the one I used to create a kick drum preset!

I would actually suggest you start with no processing at all: spend some time moving the kit around the room / treating the room acoustics / trying different mic techniques & placements / tuning the drums until you get the best basic raw sounds you possibly can. That stuff is all much more important!

Next step would be to load up the simple Tracktion EQ filters on the close-mic tracks, and experimient with the phase reverse button: changing the phase relationship between close mics and overhead / room mics can have a dramatic effect on the sound of the drum, so this is another thing you should probably get right before you apply any processing.

Now try an EQ plug, but start off just using the high-pass filters to clean up each mic and remove the sub-sonic rubbish that you don't want. The usual technique is to turn up the filter cutoff until you start to hear it work, then back it off a touch. You may want to go further than that however: sometimes removing low frequencies from the overheads will allow the lows from the close-mics to come across better, or vice versa, so try not to be tempted by the solo button and EQ your tracks in context (ie: with the rest of the kit mics AND the rest of the song if there is one.)

If you get all of the above right (and depending on the style of music you are working in of course) you might not need any further processing at all. If you do need any further processing the nature of that processing will depend partly on what you got wrong in the tracking process, and partly on the mix you are trying to fit it into... so you can start to see how difficult it would be for me to create a preset that would work in your exact situation!

That said, there are some general EQ tips I can give you, eg: cutting is always more transparent than boosting. If you must boost, a gentle Q setting of about 0.7 will sound more natural. Higher (narrower) Q settings usually work better for cutting: 1.4 is a good starting point, but try going higher for really surgical stuff.

Overheads / Room mics: this is going to depend a lot on your room, and a bit on your mics. If they are both good you might be able to leave these flat. But if you have any nasty resonances try notching these out with a narrow cut... the usual technique is to start by boosting the EQ band, then sweeping it around like an audio magnifying glass until you locate the offending frequency, then dialling it back to cut instead. As you train your ears you will get better at guessing where those frequencies are: "boominess" will be somewhere around 100Hz for example, while "boxiness" might be between 200 and 400Hz, "honkiness" closer to 800Hz etc. Words do not adequately convey sounds, so there is no substitute for training your own ears...

Kick: this is one part of the kit that is rarely expected to sound natural, so (unless you are playing purist jazz or acoustic music) this is the most likely mic to require EQ. So, low-mid frequencies are cut from the kick mic about 99% of the time. 250Hz is a good place to start, but try sweeping the cut as low as 150Hz or as high as 500Hz and listen to the results (in context!). A subtle / narrow cut can add definition to the drum while still sounding very natural, while more extreme / wider cuts start to get you into more modern "hyped" kick sounds... if you want to go further in that direction try boosting at 4-5KHz to bring out the "slam" of the sound, and if necessary seek out the low fundamental of the drum (usually about 50/60Hz) and give it a bit of a boost.

Snare: I actually aim not to need any EQ on the snare at all as I always think it sounds 10x better if I get the mic placement / tuning right to begin with. However, if you end up with a weak and anemic snare sound (even after carefully matching the phase relationships between the snare an overhead / room mics) then try boosting the fundamental of the drum, usually around 150Hz approx. Boxiness lives in the low mid-range, so cut here if needed. If the drum sounds dull you can try boosting around the upper mids / presence range (2.5Khz to 6KHz)... but that can often cause problems with hi-hat spill. (This is one of the reasons I like to use a bottom snare mic as well as a top mic: the bottom mic picks up the "crack" of the snares, so you don't need to boost that in the top mic). If necessary break the usual EQ rules and dial in a healthy boost with a very narrow Q to simluate a high frequency resonance in the drum.

Hats: perhaps you aren't micing these at all (I usually don't bother in the studio: I find I get plenty from the overheads)... if you are start with just a HP filter, and wind it right up to about 300/400 Hz or higher: the hats are doing nothing below that anyway. If you have nasty sounding hihats or a nasty sounding mic you might need to cut those nastys out, but hopefully you don't. (tip: a dynamic mic such as a SM57/58 might be a better choice for hi-hats than a cheap condenser mic, which is likely to have nasty resonances at high frequencies.)

Toms: these vary too much to be really specific. If you have a really well tuned drum with a powerful fundamental note you might get lots of the low end of the drum coming across on the overheads. In this situation I often find myself cutting the lows from the close mics (usually with a low shelving EQ) and using the close mics mostly to add some attack and definition. But if the drum is badly tuned with old knackered heads I might find myself booting the fundamental of the drum to give it more weight. A typical tom mic EQ will otherwise resemble that of the kick drum: low mid "boxiness" is usually cut, and the high mid "slam" is sometimes boosted, especially for more extreme metal styles.

Compression is too big a topic for me to start on now: let me know when you have digested the above.

[boziot]

Thanks! Great stuff! Very comprehensive. Exactly what I need for a starting point.

My main problem up to now has been getting the sound of the kit onto the hard drive. I have 25yr old Tama Superstars shells. The type used by Neil Peart for 'Moving Pictures.' Bill Bruford, Billy Cobham etc. six plies of birch. Top of the line in their day. (NOT the same as the new line of Superstars BTW) However, after all these years, I can't vouch for the full integrity of the bearing edges. Tuning these shells is a challenge.

I manage to make them sound good when I play out live. Obviously, some rooms sound better than others. For instance, if I'm playing with my back to a wall with a slope in the ceiling above me, the drums sound quite good to my ear.

In my drum room at home, through the gear, there is a boominess that seems to pervade the recording. Your advice will help me get rid of that.

But I begin to wonder if some of the problem might be my drums after all. Perhaps what I hear in the excitement of playing live, is not what I hear when I REALLY try to pay attention to the sounds in my drum room. I guess I was hoping to fix any problems in the mix.

Based on your advice, I will rethink my attack.

Perhaps in the future, as I gain more ease with my gear, I will post some recordings. Then you might be able to tweak your advice to me a bit more.

Thanks for your time.

Boz

PS IIRs, did you really post your response at 2:15 in the morning?

[IIRs]

No worries!

PS IIRs, did you really post your response at 2:15 in the morning?

no, 10.15 am. Different time zone I suspect.

[IIRs]

In my drum room at home, through the gear, there is a boominess that seems to pervade the recording.

My guess is the boominess is coming from the room. Bass traps in the corners might be the best investment you could make at this point...