Version 1.8 System Software Update for Receptor 1 users ?

[UltraJv]

I think the problem is that Receptor is seen to be a PC. It isnt. Once you get over that, it all makes sense.

This explanation is totally inane. You try to make it sound like it means something, but it doesn't. There is no enlightenment to be gained from attempting to see the Receptor as a device that isn't a PC.

There was one post on here where someone had borrowed a Receptor from a shop and upgraded the OS. It went badly wrong and he bricked it. Thats the point. Muse has done a damage limitation excercise to protect itself and customers from breaking stuff.

You don't get it. The problem is not some objective idea that can't be overcome; the problem is Muse Research's flawed models for releasing and developing their operating system. Perhaps you're not a developer and can't understand the solutions that have been proposed by the technical users in this forum.

No one went to Apple and asked if they could help port OSX to the PC, ditto for iphone jailbreaks and every other firmware/hardware/software tweak. If you tweak stuff, it often breaks and no one wants to be responsible.

There are two problems with this statement:

1.) There are no *real* barriers to getting the new operating system to run on Rev. C hardware, only imagined barriers created in the heads of the people at Muse Research. Each time someone at Muse Research has proposed that there is a barrier, one or more of the technical users on this forum have proposed one or more solutions for overcoming the barrier, and Muse Research has ignored the technical users in question *every* time.

2.) You're projecting. I tweak stuff all the time. I write code for a living, and I help maintain several open source projects. When I mess something up while coding, I definitely want to take responsibility, and I solve the problem by patching the code that I messed up. So, don't assume that "no one wants to be responsible".

Youre clearly angry. No point in aiming that me. I dont even have a Receptor. If you want to tweak the Receptor go ahead and give everybody what you say is possible. Else put up or sell it - LIGAF.

[SurfacePatterns]

I dont even have a Receptor.

I should have known you were a troll.

[UltraJv]

I dont even have a Receptor.

I should have known you were a troll.

People come on KVR all the time saying how everyone is doing xyz wrong. Those people rarely go on to being productive because they cant see all the problems involved. Heres an opportunity to turn a negative into a solution.

[chalaby]

In 2008 MSI, our motherboard supplier discovered a problem with their SATA hard drive support that required an update to the BIOS for the drives to work correctly.

This bothers me.

I purchased my Receptor mid 2008...when exactly did you know this? Why did Muse continue to sell these units into 2009? Are we entitled to some sort of fix? Why did representatives from Muse continue to promise on this forum that they were working on an upgrade to OS 1.8 for older hardware without disclosing this? The methods suggested installation discs or even disc images, which would not work given that the BIOS would not allow SATA support. Why wasn't this problem discovered at that time?

In terms of these prices you have come up with, I don't see any hardship for Muse. You certainly have yourselves covered to make sure that it will not cost you anything. All shipping to be paid by customer? In my opinion, Muse should at least be eating the cost of shipping. I also imagine that the upgrade prices at least cover the base cost, and may include a small profit margin if I am not mistaken. As I posted earlier, I am not interested in your new hardware because of all of the alternative (and superior in my opinion) choices I have, so this is really just sour-grapes (although I would like to run Pianoteq 3 on my Rev C). Ignore it if you wish. However, the BIOS issue should be addressed.

JR

Hi John,

Our first priority was to make the Receptor 2 hardware work, for obvious reasons. Ultimately there were so many changes in the underlying code that we could not find a safe way to do the upgrades in the field for everybody. We also came to conclusion that in many cases customers would prefer to use the Receptor the way they had been with the plug-ins they were already using rather than going through the plug-in installation process all over again. This has most definitely caused hardship for Muse. It was always our intention to move the OS 1.8 to Rev C hardware and we spent a lot of time working on it. When we set about building Receptor it was to create a great product that people would be able to use creatively. I hope you did get some positive use out of it.

Chris

[chalaby]

If I do a drive upgrade does that mean that future OS updates will be compatible and installable by me? For a drive upgraded Receptor 1 how far into OS updates can it expected to be compatible (if at all)?

Jon

Hi Jon,

We like to think that this particular upgrade was the exception not the rule. We will do our best to make future updates support older hardware, but we can't guarantee it. The computer industry doesn't work that way. The technologies are moving very fast and at some point the hardware just becomes too old. We will try to take care of our customers any way we can when similar issues occur in the future.

Chris

[chalaby]

The real shame is that you have not enabled any of the European resellers or agents like Grizzly Media, Rod's Garage, Computer Warehouse, etc... to handle upgrades like it was possible for the Rev. A to Rev. C upgrade.

Hi Kermit,

We are going to work something out with our partners so that it won't be so difficult for people overseas. Please stay tuned after the NAMM show for an announcement.

Thanks for continued patience
Chris

[projektio]

I think the problem is that Receptor is seen to be a PC. It isnt. Once you get over that, it all makes sense. There was one post on here where someone had borrowed a Receptor from a shop and upgraded the OS. It went badly wrong and he bricked it. Thats the point. Muse has done a damage limitation excercise to protect itself and customers from breaking stuff. No one went to Apple and asked if they could help port OSX to the PC, ditto for iphone jailbreaks and every other firmware/hardware/software tweak. If you tweak stuff, it often breaks and no one wants to be responsible. If enough people want to tweak the Receptor, Im sure it will happen but of course without any liability/responsibilty from Muse.

Like SurfacePatterns said, there are plenty of technical users who own have offered up solutions specifically to the OS 1.8 problem, and no responses have been given out. If Muse could provide an ISO download solution with a list of steps to follow, I doubt a flood of users would have "bricked" their Receptor.

The vast majority of users are probably too scared or not interested in doing an OS upgrade on their own. They will end up forking over several hundred dollars for a factory upgrade.

But there are enough of us out here in "techie land" that can handle this stuff on our own and would like to save some money and time.

I think it is unfortunate that there is this loud a chorus of people frustrated with A) the silence (until recently) on the part of Muse and B) the just announced not-so-cheap options for updating/upgrading the OS.

Unless someone wants to correct me, I am pretty sure that Muse attempted to assure all of us Pro Jr (and earlier model) owners that OS 1.8 would be delivered. I am not discounting the fact that they may have run into huge hardware and/or software difficulties with accomplishing this update, but to promise great and deliver sub-par is highly frustrating. I'd rather have them be vague (which they're good at) than promise something they can't produce.

projektio

[UltraJv]

I think the problem is that Receptor is seen to be a PC. It isnt. Once you get over that, it all makes sense. There was one post on here where someone had borrowed a Receptor from a shop and upgraded the OS. It went badly wrong and he bricked it. Thats the point. Muse has done a damage limitation excercise to protect itself and customers from breaking stuff. No one went to Apple and asked if they could help port OSX to the PC, ditto for iphone jailbreaks and every other firmware/hardware/software tweak. If you tweak stuff, it often breaks and no one wants to be responsible. If enough people want to tweak the Receptor, Im sure it will happen but of course without any liability/responsibilty from Muse.

Like SurfacePatterns said, there are plenty of technical users who own have offered up solutions specifically to the OS 1.8 problem, and no responses have been given out. If Muse could provide an ISO download solution with a list of steps to follow, I doubt a flood of users would have "bricked" their Receptor.

The vast majority of users are probably too scared or not interested in doing an OS upgrade on their own. They will end up forking over several hundred dollars for a factory upgrade.

But there are enough of us out here in "techie land" that can handle this stuff on our own and would like to save some money and time.

I think it is unfortunate that there is this loud a chorus of people frustrated with A) the silence (until recently) on the part of Muse and B) the just announced not-so-cheap options for updating/upgrading the OS.

Unless someone wants to correct me, I am pretty sure that Muse attempted to assure all of us Pro Jr (and earlier model) owners that OS 1.8 would be delivered. I am not discounting the fact that they may have run into huge hardware and/or software difficulties with accomplishing this update, but to promise great and deliver sub-par is highly frustrating. I'd rather have them be vague (which they're good at) than promise something they can't produce.

projektio

I have been following this. Im interested because Im sure it can done to an extent, BUT there are things that need to be sorted first. You need a way to clone the hard drive easily in case of trouble during testing. Then somone needs to see if the BIOS issue can be resolved by doing the update and seeing what happens. IDE/Sata drivers may need to be put into the OS before it boots. Unless someone is willing to take the risks - you wont get far. In order to get OSX 10.6 on my PC, I had to flash an unofficial modded BIOS. As I had the older BIOS and GHOST images of all OSs - it was no big deal. There are people out there who will mod BIOSes if there is a bit of bravado in it.

[SurfacePatterns]

I have been following this. Im interested because Im sure it can done to an extent, BUT there are things that need to be sorted first. You need a way to clone the hard drive easily in case of trouble during testing. Then somone needs to see if the BIOS issue can be resolved by doing the update and seeing what happens. Unless someone is willing to take the risks - you wont get far.

You continue to demonstrate that you don't understand the problem.

Hard drive cloning is not the issue; the distribution method of the operating system is the issue. If the operating system is distributed as an ISO image, then, when a problem occurs, the OS can simply be reinstalled. This would also solve the BIOS issue, as the operating system could be installed on an IDE drive. It's not like the Linux kernel has stopped supporting IDE drives ...

[UltraJv]

I have been following this. Im interested because Im sure it can done to an extent, BUT there are things that need to be sorted first. You need a way to clone the hard drive easily in case of trouble during testing. Then somone needs to see if the BIOS issue can be resolved by doing the update and seeing what happens. Unless someone is willing to take the risks - you wont get far.

You continue to demonstrate that you don't understand the problem.

Hard drive cloning is not the issue; the distribution method of the operating system is the issue. If the operating system is distributed as an ISO image, then, when a problem occurs, the OS can simply be reinstalled. This would also solve the BIOS issue, as the operating system could be installed on an IDE drive. It's not like the Linux kernel has stopped supporting IDE drives ...

Youre NOT going to get an ISO. Youre not reading what Muse have said. So you need to try the BIOS issue (if there is one) yourself. Thats why I mentioned cloning the drive.

[SurfacePatterns]

Youre NOT going to get an ISO. Youre not reading what Muse have said. So you need to try the BIOS issue (if there is one) yourself.

1.) I'm not giving up. I still have faith that someone at Muse Research will come to their senses.
2.) You don't even own a Receptor. Kindly STFU.

[Rick@MuseResearch]

I did speak directly with MSI engineering and our own engineeing staff concerning this. The problem is that Receptor could never get past 50 boots with any SATA larger than 160GB regardless of the permutations tested. The Receptor would always get stuck at Intializing System at some random point. I'm guessing that it has something to do with the spin up of the larger drives. If anyone has a clue, I'm listening.

[johnrule]

I did speak directly with MSI engineering and our own engineeing staff concerning this. The problem is that Receptor could never get past 50 boots with any SATA larger than 160GB regardless of the permutations tested. The Receptor would always get stuck at Intializing System at some random point. I'm guessing that it has something to do with the spin up of the larger drives. If anyone has a clue, I'm listening.

Did this happen with a larger IDE as well? If it did, maybe it is something else.

JR

[Rick@MuseResearch]

IDE'S were not a problem, only SATA.

[jeamsler]

The Receptor Pro and Pro jr. used larger IDE drives (400 & 750gb) with the MSI motherboard so that suggests it is something to do with SATA drives used with the MSI board. Which still begs the question; why can't we just run the new os on IDE? Or is the new os setup to utilize SATA and can't be retrofitted for IDE boot easily? It was never clear to me why we had to use SATA drives with the os 1.8.

Jon