I recently got a Novation SL mkII with the speed dial on it (like the nocturn), which is a very handy thing. Whatever parameter you point your mouse over is controlled by the one speed dial. Works great with almost everything.
However at first I thought it wasn't working properly. Every time I adjusted a parameter with the speed dial, the parameter would fully or partly reset to where it was (might just jump part way back). The first two plug-ins I was trying it with were ACE and Zebra. I figured it was something wrong with the Speed dial or a setting until I tried it with other plug-ins, where I started noticing that it actually bahaved normally with almost everything else I tried. I tested the speed dial on 35 instrument plug-ins, and it worked properly on all but 3. Those three were Zebra, ACE and ABL Pro.
And by the way, the speed dial does not require automap at all. You can be using the regular version of plug-ins, or even host controls. The tests were the same with regular VSTs or Audio units. Same 3 plug-ins that had the parameters jumping back as soon as you let go of the speed dial.
Urs, is there any reason you can think of why this would be happening? Fixable do you think? The speed dial is seriously awesome and the first thing I thought when I first used it was 'This is perfect for Zebra', since it has so many controls, and I don't want to map all of them out to hardware templates, but when you want to quickly automate something, speed dial lets you do that instantly from a dial.
cheers
Problem with Zebra and ACE parameters resetting with Novation speed dial
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Echoes in the Attic Echoes in the Attic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=180417
- KVRAF
- 12052 posts since 12 May, 2008
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- KVRAF
- 4141 posts since 11 Aug, 2006 from Texas
Urs, The "speed dial" works by emulating a mouse pointer. When you rotate the knob clockwise the software send a mouse 1 button click and then moves the pointer diagonally up and right. It sends a mouse 1 button click and moves the cursor diagonally left and down when you rotate it counter clockwise. When you stop rotating the knob the mouse 1 click is released.
I've verified the speed dial is not functioning for ACE or Zebra on Reaper 3.31 and Automap 3.4 on XP SP3.
I can sometimes get it to work if I click the mouse button on my mouse and then rotate the knob. I think it might have something to do with how your plugs interpret mouse click events.
I've verified the speed dial is not functioning for ACE or Zebra on Reaper 3.31 and Automap 3.4 on XP SP3.
I can sometimes get it to work if I click the mouse button on my mouse and then rotate the knob. I think it might have something to do with how your plugs interpret mouse click events.
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- u-he
- 30216 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Hmmm... looks like Novation becomes my nemesis 
Don't get me wrong but of course AutoMap and Speeddial out of *my* perspective are *hacks* that plugin specifications do not necessarily obey to. I suppose that they implement their technologies using some common grounds (NI, Waves, Steinberg VSTs), but they might not respect the full range of possible implementations within a plugin standard. "Emulating a mouse pointer" sounds horrible to me as they can not know for sure how and when my plugins gather mouse position data.
Does anyone have a contact, preferredly one of their developers? I'll happily send them my stuff so they can add compatibility. I'll also happily adjust things on my side unless it's a complete rewrite, but I need them to tell me what their requirements are. Again, no offense, but it's *their* hack that's not compatible with my implementation, not the other way round.
Cheers,
Urs
Don't get me wrong but of course AutoMap and Speeddial out of *my* perspective are *hacks* that plugin specifications do not necessarily obey to. I suppose that they implement their technologies using some common grounds (NI, Waves, Steinberg VSTs), but they might not respect the full range of possible implementations within a plugin standard. "Emulating a mouse pointer" sounds horrible to me as they can not know for sure how and when my plugins gather mouse position data.
Does anyone have a contact, preferredly one of their developers? I'll happily send them my stuff so they can add compatibility. I'll also happily adjust things on my side unless it's a complete rewrite, but I need them to tell me what their requirements are. Again, no offense, but it's *their* hack that's not compatible with my implementation, not the other way round.
Cheers,
Urs-
- KVRAF
- 4141 posts since 11 Aug, 2006 from Texas
I agree 100%. I actually don't use the speed dial very much because it's a good idea in theory but poor in practice. Depending on the plugin I've had it pick up a second knob as it's moving the mouse pointer (Pro-C), not work (u-he), get the mouse cursor "stuck" (Surge). About the only thing I've found it to work as I expected on are the built-in effects in Reaper.
Maybe I'll send a feature request to them letting the user switch between the current mode and send mouse wheel up and mouse wheel down. That doesn't require moving the mouse and also doesn't cause weird state to happen with mouse clicks...
Maybe I'll send a feature request to them letting the user switch between the current mode and send mouse wheel up and mouse wheel down. That doesn't require moving the mouse and also doesn't cause weird state to happen with mouse clicks...
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Echoes in the Attic Echoes in the Attic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=180417
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 12052 posts since 12 May, 2008
Urs, I wouldn't say automap is your Nemesis at all! In fact u-he plug-ins and automap are the best of friends. Truth is, Zebra and ACE are the some of best behaved plug-ins for automap out there. Especially the fact that even modulation sources are exposed to host automation like the cables of ACE - Makes for perfect automap setups!
That being said, speed dial has nothing to do with automap really, but I suppose you're right, it's a sort of hack, but a clever one. There's nothing I hate more than having to press and push/pull a mouse or trackpad to adjust a parameter while playing keys. Speed dial just makes it so much nicer for those controls you wouldn't normally map out like amount of keytracking modulation or something, where you'd adjust slowly to find the right amount while playing. Just throw the pointer over it and use the dial. I highly suggest it!
Anyways I certainly wouldn't expect a re-write or anything if it was complicated. But like I said, I did literally test 35 plug-ins, 32 of which behaved correctly (except the sliders in Sylenth1 had trouble picking up sometimes). Those plug-ins were generally Native Instruments, Spectrasonics, GForce, Tone2, AAS, Korg, Camel Audio, Arturia, Admiral Quality, Xils and a few others. The parameters of the host instruments in Logic and Ableton also worked fine. And I don't say that to mean that therefor the u-he synths should as well, but I'm not sure what Novation would say if asked them to change something to fit the u-he synths when the others are working as is. I'm not sure they'd look into it that fast, that's all. Novation support isn't bad at all, but they aren't nearly as responsive as you so I have a bit more faith in the possibility that you might catch something (hopefully small) that could be adjusted. Audiorealism is the only other one that had the same problem and I'd notify them but I only tried it with the demo of ABL Pro so since I don't own that one yet (Been considering that one for ages), don't really want to tie up their support on it. And actually it's only ABL Pro that has the problem, not ABL2.
Anyways I wouldn't have the first clue what kind of work it would entail or how difficult of a change it would be, but it would be awesome if you'd maybe look into it. Novation would probably answer you pretty fast, they're usually pretty quick getting back to me. Perhaps they could tell you a bit about the technicalities of the speed dial.
Here's a couple support email addresses I've heard back from before. one from the older SL's and one for the recent mkII's. Maybe try both? :
RemoteslSupport@novationmusic.com
slmkiisupport@novationmusic.com
Hope that helps!
Cheers!
In fact u-he plug-ins and automap are the best of friends. Truth is, Zebra and ACE are the some of best behaved plug-ins for automap out there. Especially the fact that even modulation sources are exposed to host automation like the cables of ACE - Makes for perfect automap setups!That being said, speed dial has nothing to do with automap really, but I suppose you're right, it's a sort of hack, but a clever one. There's nothing I hate more than having to press and push/pull a mouse or trackpad to adjust a parameter while playing keys. Speed dial just makes it so much nicer for those controls you wouldn't normally map out like amount of keytracking modulation or something, where you'd adjust slowly to find the right amount while playing. Just throw the pointer over it and use the dial. I highly suggest it!
Anyways I certainly wouldn't expect a re-write or anything if it was complicated. But like I said, I did literally test 35 plug-ins, 32 of which behaved correctly (except the sliders in Sylenth1 had trouble picking up sometimes). Those plug-ins were generally Native Instruments, Spectrasonics, GForce, Tone2, AAS, Korg, Camel Audio, Arturia, Admiral Quality, Xils and a few others. The parameters of the host instruments in Logic and Ableton also worked fine. And I don't say that to mean that therefor the u-he synths should as well, but I'm not sure what Novation would say if asked them to change something to fit the u-he synths when the others are working as is. I'm not sure they'd look into it that fast, that's all. Novation support isn't bad at all, but they aren't nearly as responsive as you so I have a bit more faith in the possibility that you might catch something (hopefully small) that could be adjusted. Audiorealism is the only other one that had the same problem and I'd notify them but I only tried it with the demo of ABL Pro so since I don't own that one yet (Been considering that one for ages), don't really want to tie up their support on it. And actually it's only ABL Pro that has the problem, not ABL2.
Anyways I wouldn't have the first clue what kind of work it would entail or how difficult of a change it would be, but it would be awesome if you'd maybe look into it. Novation would probably answer you pretty fast, they're usually pretty quick getting back to me. Perhaps they could tell you a bit about the technicalities of the speed dial.
Here's a couple support email addresses I've heard back from before. one from the older SL's and one for the recent mkII's. Maybe try both? :
RemoteslSupport@novationmusic.com
slmkiisupport@novationmusic.com
Hope that helps!
Cheers!