developers.. live MIDI performance VST (Zyklus/Direct)
-
- KVRian
- 1239 posts since 17 Jul, 2003
How do you select the transposition scale, as a single chord can fit in a couple of them with different results ?
I though of a few solutions for my test plug:
1) The patterns should avoid problematic notes, like F and B in C Maj. PSR styles are made this way, but it's a bit limiting.
2) Set a priority scale in advance, like C Major so chords like D min, G maj,.. would stay in C major. May not work well all the time.
3) Play all the chords you will use and select the scale for each of them in a list. But then I change sometimes scale on a same chord so that would need some diferent presets, and a bit tricky to change in real-time.
4) Build up the scale with the help of the melody. Problem is that a few patterns make come out wrong until the right keys are played.
5) Having a foot pedal that would select the next scale for a given chord, until it sounds right and then recalls for future use.
Well, nothing perfect, how do you deal with that ?
I though of a few solutions for my test plug:
1) The patterns should avoid problematic notes, like F and B in C Maj. PSR styles are made this way, but it's a bit limiting.
2) Set a priority scale in advance, like C Major so chords like D min, G maj,.. would stay in C major. May not work well all the time.
3) Play all the chords you will use and select the scale for each of them in a list. But then I change sometimes scale on a same chord so that would need some diferent presets, and a bit tricky to change in real-time.
4) Build up the scale with the help of the melody. Problem is that a few patterns make come out wrong until the right keys are played.
5) Having a foot pedal that would select the next scale for a given chord, until it sounds right and then recalls for future use.
Well, nothing perfect, how do you deal with that ?
-
- KVRist
- 261 posts since 14 Apr, 2006
I've created about 60 scales, each belonging to a certain type of chord to begin with. And if you know the root of a chord then you could transpose the scale to fit the keyscale. But the stored scales are just starting points. They are manipulated in real time to fit the way a chord is played, like inversions. It's not all sunshine, "scaled" sequences plays sometimes "identical" notes that weren't in the original recorded sequence, but it all depends how the sequence was constructed. And playing chromatic riffs doens't work either.mbncp wrote:How do you select the transposition scale, as a single chord can fit in a couple of them with different results ?
I though of a few solutions for my test plug:
1) The patterns should avoid problematic notes, like F and B in C Maj. PSR styles are made this way, but it's a bit limiting.
2) Set a priority scale in advance, like C Major so chords like D min, G maj,.. would stay in C major. May not work well all the time.
3) Play all the chords you will use and select the scale for each of them in a list. But then I change sometimes scale on a same chord so that would need some diferent presets, and a bit tricky to change in real-time.
4) Build up the scale with the help of the melody. Problem is that a few patterns make come out wrong until the right keys are played.
5) Having a foot pedal that would select the next scale for a given chord, until it sounds right and then recalls for future use.
Well, nothing perfect, how do you deal with that ?
-
- KVRian
- 528 posts since 2 Jan, 2007
I agree, very impressive! Is this something you are
planning on releasing, and if so how and when?
Something in Max for Live would be particularly great.
I want one!!! :-)
Cheers,
Scott
planning on releasing, and if so how and when?
Something in Max for Live would be particularly great.
I want one!!! :-)
Cheers,
Scott
-
- KVRian
- 514 posts since 2 May, 2004
I am impressed... This program is realy inspiring and something completely new on todays market, despite the fact that hardware version and the main idea are 20 years old.
The video is great too, I hope that this program will be available soon.
There are some midi recorders/loopers out there but they are not so advanced. I hope that midi buffers do not "drop" note-offs that accidentely occur behind end loop point and that buffers do not "swallow" note-ons bein introduced just before loop start point.
I hope that future versions are going to work nice with touch screens.
While looking this video I can almost feel the strenght and passion needed to achieve those programming hights.
Congratulations, Bronswerk
The video is great too, I hope that this program will be available soon.
There are some midi recorders/loopers out there but they are not so advanced. I hope that midi buffers do not "drop" note-offs that accidentely occur behind end loop point and that buffers do not "swallow" note-ons bein introduced just before loop start point.
I hope that future versions are going to work nice with touch screens.
While looking this video I can almost feel the strenght and passion needed to achieve those programming hights.
Congratulations, Bronswerk
-
- KVRist
- 261 posts since 14 Apr, 2006
Thanks for all the kind words. It took a real long breath to get is at this point. Let me tell you a little history of this program:
1. 1 May, 2004. A very interesting discussion started by "arpmaniac" at the old SOS forum. It was about the original Zyklus Midi Performance System developed by Bill Marshall, Pete Kellock and Mike Crisp.
2. July 19, 2004. Bill Marshall stepped into the discussion. He explained some of the possibilities of the Zyklus MPS and the "Direct" sequencer (private for Vangelis). He was willing to design a new concept for a future product. In fact a combination of master keyboard functionality, realtime recording of sequences and arpeggiators. At a later stage it was split into 2 concepts: the "Synthesizer Control Station" and "Zyklus Improvisor".
3. The discussion goes on for about 3 years! The idea got attention by other people. Around 18 September 2007 it was mentioned that a professional company would developed such a product.
4. Time goes by, nothing! What's happening?
5. Somewhere between 2006 and 2007 Bill Marshall and I decided to make our own version of Zyklus Improvisor. Bill did the programming and I was his side kick so to say, giving ideas, suggestions etc. Unfortunately later on Bill had to stop developing because his daily job took too much time of him. Now I'm on my own.
7. End 2007. I'm not a real programmer so I had to look for other ways to make such a program. I started with Artwonk. Altough I made some pretty advanced stepsequencers with it, it became clear this program wasn't the perfect candidate for my needs.
8. End 2008. Made the transition to Max/Msp. Much better, but I had to learn Max. Now that takes some time with a project like this!
9. End 2009. At this time I had a working prototype but I knew I couldn't get it into the next, professional level. Luckily a software company showed interest in Zyklus Improvisor. So, ok, here are my files, code, working prototype and even the little video that's now on Youtube. It was handled to them on a silver plate. After a few emails there was ..... ABSOLUTELY SILENCE to this day. Did I made a mistake?
I'm planning to make the Max files public. Take it "as is". If someone says "but I can do that better", please be my guest, take it where ever you want it, but send me a copy also so I can enjoy it too!
Links for interesting reading, the old discussions on the SOS forum:
http://sound-on-sound2.infopop.net/2/Op ... =474100661
http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showf ... art=2&vc=1
1. 1 May, 2004. A very interesting discussion started by "arpmaniac" at the old SOS forum. It was about the original Zyklus Midi Performance System developed by Bill Marshall, Pete Kellock and Mike Crisp.
2. July 19, 2004. Bill Marshall stepped into the discussion. He explained some of the possibilities of the Zyklus MPS and the "Direct" sequencer (private for Vangelis). He was willing to design a new concept for a future product. In fact a combination of master keyboard functionality, realtime recording of sequences and arpeggiators. At a later stage it was split into 2 concepts: the "Synthesizer Control Station" and "Zyklus Improvisor".
3. The discussion goes on for about 3 years! The idea got attention by other people. Around 18 September 2007 it was mentioned that a professional company would developed such a product.
4. Time goes by, nothing! What's happening?
5. Somewhere between 2006 and 2007 Bill Marshall and I decided to make our own version of Zyklus Improvisor. Bill did the programming and I was his side kick so to say, giving ideas, suggestions etc. Unfortunately later on Bill had to stop developing because his daily job took too much time of him. Now I'm on my own.
7. End 2007. I'm not a real programmer so I had to look for other ways to make such a program. I started with Artwonk. Altough I made some pretty advanced stepsequencers with it, it became clear this program wasn't the perfect candidate for my needs.
8. End 2008. Made the transition to Max/Msp. Much better, but I had to learn Max. Now that takes some time with a project like this!
9. End 2009. At this time I had a working prototype but I knew I couldn't get it into the next, professional level. Luckily a software company showed interest in Zyklus Improvisor. So, ok, here are my files, code, working prototype and even the little video that's now on Youtube. It was handled to them on a silver plate. After a few emails there was ..... ABSOLUTELY SILENCE to this day. Did I made a mistake?
I'm planning to make the Max files public. Take it "as is". If someone says "but I can do that better", please be my guest, take it where ever you want it, but send me a copy also so I can enjoy it too!
Links for interesting reading, the old discussions on the SOS forum:
http://sound-on-sound2.infopop.net/2/Op ... =474100661
http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showf ... art=2&vc=1
-
- KVRian
- 514 posts since 2 May, 2004
Sounds great!!!
I will be pleased to download the code, learn Max and some Max programming to use this program. But, is there any chance to make some programming tutorials for the code you want to provide. Just some descriptions of classes, objects and to inform somehow "what does what".
Thanks again
I will be pleased to download the code, learn Max and some Max programming to use this program. But, is there any chance to make some programming tutorials for the code you want to provide. Just some descriptions of classes, objects and to inform somehow "what does what".
Thanks again
-
- KVRist
- 261 posts since 14 Apr, 2006
The program is a combination of "old style Max" and Java (inside the Max "mxj" object). Of course there's a learning curve and it's always difficult for a programmer to step into the mind of another programmer. "Why did he do this, couldn't he do that instead?" Etc... If there are some people who will give it a try I make a pdf or so with some detailed info.maki wrote:Sounds great!!!
I will be pleased to download the code, learn Max and some Max programming to use this program. But, is there any chance to make some programming tutorials for the code you want to provide. Just some descriptions of classes, objects and to inform somehow "what does what".
Thanks again