edit

[paladium]

prk processor keyboard not brk , speculating maybe but there are reasons ,few
people wich are used to work in modern daw enviroments would get there head around with working a system like the waveterm , most of them wouldnt get sound out of it, it would completely baffle them, so in order to make a workable system easy to use they will dispense of functionality and streamline it, thats exactly what ppg is NOT about , its a complex ,archaic , in the best case
we will get a way to draw into the waveform but it will be different from a waveterm

[setAI]

if the new PPG actually does give you crunchy 8 bit wavetables from user samples I hope they allow you to load those into Largo in a future update!

I personally like the Largo engine more than the original PPG- which is probably my favorite hardware synth of all time- simply because of all the audio rate FM and nearly modular modulation routings

[jobromedia]

This looks definitly intresting! Any price as of yet?

[ew]

Reaktor ensembles:

https://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=use rlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=3596

Qute isn't a PPG emulation- it's a Q/microQ emulation. I've been working on a new version off and on; maybe I'll get it done soon...

ew

[PAK]

This was a very nice surprise at Messe. Although I'm wondering what they're planning to improve about the original PPG emulation more than the very welcome news that they're adding a Waveterm emulation. I still think (in certain regards) the free PPG Wavesim VST captures more of the original character than Waldorfs own emulation attempt.

[DocT]

Although I'm wondering what they're planning to improve about the original PPG emulation

Aliasing and grittyness I suppose.

V2 sounded a little too polite:

http://www.trippler.net/files/mp3/ppginextremo.mp3

http://www.trippler.net/files/mp3/wolfr ... tmares.mp3

[Ingonator]

Here's what Till Kopper wrote on the Waldorf forum:

"Anyway, I hope the message about the new PPG wave 3.V came through:

- more realistic aliasing of the real PPG waves. They were not limited to something like 44 kHz sample rate in the oscillators. The difference is very obvious on bass notes. Aliasing wasn't all due to the 8 bit waveshapes only. The oscillators were different build then normal 44 KHz based digital ones. This is the best news to me.
- playback of the original PPG sample library. Although the samples were short and often not well looped, you will notice many of them from the eighties pop music.
- 8 part multimode like on the PPG wave 2.3
- a sound browser like the Largo
- FX section with drive, up to 6 stage chorus, (long) delay, reverb, distortion, phaser, flanger. Much like the Largo.
- more graphics displayed (LFO, osc and sub-osc waveshape added to the filter and 3 envelope displays)
- and many other details I forgot

After 10 years (2.V was introduced at the Musik Messe 2000) there is a major improvement in all aspects of this program. Not just a little update.

I am pleased to see Waldorf still keeping their roots alive.


keep on turning these knobs

Till"

[paladium]

thanks ingonator , that featurelist shows exactly the kind of features
that would actually work within todays workflow , so like i anticipated
it looks like no full original waveterm capability will be implemented, just linear played samples through the 8 and 12 bit modes wich is good news
for people that actually want to use the damn thing but bad news for people that expect a faithfull ppg system emu , wavesim is better yes than v2 but still a long way from the sound of the real thing

[jens]

so like i anticipated
it looks like no full original waveterm capability will be implemented, just linear played samples through the 8 and 12 bit modes

oh stop it already, will you?

[Ingonator]

thanks ingonator , that featurelist shows exactly the kind of features
that would actually work within todays workflow , so like i anticipated
it looks like no full original waveterm capability will be implemented, just linear played samples through the 8 and 12 bit modes wich is good news
for people that actually want to use the damn thing but bad news for people that expect a faithfull ppg system emu , wavesim is better yes than v2 but still a long way from the sound of the real thing

Let's see.

[rob_lee]

thanks ingonator , that featurelist shows exactly the kind of features
that would actually work within todays workflow , so like i anticipated
it looks like no full original waveterm capability will be implemented, just linear played samples through the 8 and 12 bit modes wich is good news
for people that actually want to use the damn thing but bad news for people that expect a faithfull ppg system emu , wavesim is better yes than v2 but still a long way from the sound of the real thing

Let's see. The beta testing hasn't even started AFAIK...

SHH

[arakula]

Time to add some words, it seems...
I'll condense it to one slightly bigger posting:

BTW, the youtube video is so funny. "More aliasing costs more CPU power." Now that's cool.

Yes, it sounds strange... but you have to consider that in this case it means "run the oscillators at some arcane frequency that's nowhere near one of the standard ones (~172kHz for the Wave 2.2, ~184kHz for the Wave 2.3/EVU), then convert that to the target sample rate while preserving the original's aliasing." That's not as trivial as it may seem.

There was no upgrade path to the Waldorf Edition from the Steinbug version, even though they said there would be (they just went out of business, and came back, later).

That's simply not true; I got my Waldorf Edition as an upgrade from the Steinberg version, far cheaper than if I had bought the new version. You just had (maybe still have? That was years ago) to ask their support for details.

nO that refers to voice banks , the original ppg2.3 was the first true multitimbral polysynth with midi ( rhodes chroma was a year earlier but only multi via chromaface and apple iic) its 8 part multitimbral and 16 part if you use the EVU linked up the wave 2.3 actually has 18 ! midichannels , the upper 2 beyond 16 are for its multimode communication via the waveterm

Ahem. The Waveterm has no MIDI.
The Wave 2.3 can use 16 MIDI channels, just like all other machines that talk MIDI - you can't get 18 channels out of 4 bits.
MIDI:1 to MIDI:16 are used to tell the Wave/EVU to listen on a specific MIDI channel and send the MIDI data to the currently selected sound bank, whereas MIDI:17 tells it to use MIDI channels 1..8 and send them to the corresponding bank 1..8, and MIDI:18 tells it to use MIDI channels 9..16 and send them to the corresponding bank 1..8.

Digital Wavetables can be emulated perfectly because the original PPG is a Digital Synth. 2.V has already achieved that.

No, since it didn't run them at the same sample rate.

Wrong the original is hybrid ,its 40 percent digital and 60 analog ,
the enveloppes , filters ,amplifiers are pure analog only the oscillators are
digital...

The envelopes are not analog. They are calculated digitally; the result is then sent through a DAC to convert it into a control voltage for the VCF / VCA (which are analog). As for the rest...

... that is the 'only ' thing that is exact in the software namely the
wavetables are exact eprom readouts of the original 2400 waveform cycles
and bitreduced emulation doesnt sound the same either as opposed to playing through real 8 or 12 bit dacs,

The 2.v has no "bitreduced emulation" - it uses the same waveforms, as to my knowledge Wolfram took them from the original EPROMs. If you mean "the 2.v doesn't use the full range of the sound card" - yes, true, but that doesn't contribute half as much to the slightly different character than the filter.

here is a real ppg owner talking so you better take it as correct

I won't comment on that.

Just to clear things up a bit... the original Wave has a set of about 250 waves in its EPROMs. The rest is interpolated when one of the wavetables is loaded into memory. A wavetable definition in the EPROM looks like "Use Wave 1 in place 1, Wave 30 in place 10, Wave 12 in place 21..." and so on. The waves in the other places of the wavetable are the result of a linear interpolation between the waves at the fixed positions.

The often-cited number "Nearly 2000 waveforms!" does not really reflect reality - that's just "30 wavetables with 64 waves each... hmmm... 30*64=1920. Hey, what a nice number for marketing!".

All of them are 8-bit, BTW, no matter whether you use a 2.2 or 2.3. On a 2.3, the oscillator DACs are 12-bit, yes, but for the on-board wavetables that makes nearly no difference, since the lowest 4 bits are unused. It becomes very important, however, if you send user-created wavetables from the Waveterm. In this case, the whole 12-bit range is used (actually, the Waveterm even sends them as 16-bit samples, but the Wave only uses 12 bits).

wavesim is better yes than v2 but still a long way from the sound of the real thing

I agree. But it was never meant to be a successful commercial product. I created it mainly to have a development environment for my V8.x OS for the original Waves - it's MUCH easier to test this way than to burn & insert a new set of EPROMs each time I change something, and it offers nice debugging capabilities which would otherwise need a 6809 ICE, which I don't have. For that, it already sounds quite nice, I'd say.

[Ingonator]

Many thanks for some clarifications from a "PPG guru", Hermann.

[ChamomileShark]

It's not a perfect emulation unless it includes Hermann's "bad display". I'll wait until Waldorf include that.

(on the other hand, I'll get this as soon as it comes out)

[electro]

3.V Release Date?