Smart FSK to MIDI Clock Converter - maybe in VST form?

[Compyfox]

I'm eyeing FSK (Frequency Shift Keying) sync boxes for a certain while now, after I talked to a pawn shop manager regarding my tape machine. Specifically the old MIDIman SmartSync, which is now discontinued and also not shipped anymore.

I still need to grasp what this thing actually does other than sending "tone bursts" in several frequencies according to the MIDI clock of the host, and in the same time "hearing" what comes from tape and properly triggering the host as slave.


Why I want to do this:
I want to mix down certain stuff to my 4 track R"R just for fun and soundshaping. Though I do know that I shouldn't use the "outer" channels for delicate material, and the FSK unit creates a certain bleeding as well. So chances are I can only use one channel of the middle ones efficiently with this device, which is sometimes just enough - as long as it's synced.


So the question to the old tape users out there:
Do you maybe know a plugin solution to sync this device (my recording device uses an individual MIDI port and I have enough spare ports available for audio), which I'd actually prefer, or am I stuck with getting a used FSK box, no matter which brand?

If it's the latter, what do you think it is work nowadays?


Thanks for chiming in and helping out.

[Compyfox]

Any takers?

[C00kie]

Sorry, can't really help. But you could team up with Acid Mitch and share some FSK knowledge.

But wait a minute... The idea of Smart FSK is you record a sort of Midi click track on tape. Then a drum computer or midi sequencer can be set up to be slave of the tape deck. So only audio tracks need to be recorded and the midi tracks can be mixed and printed to a 2-track master at the last minute.

If your projects are completely DAW based, and the tape deck is only used as an effect, then why all the sync hassle? Couldn't you get away with just bouncing it to tape, record that on an audio track in the DAW again and line it up manually? Speed variations shouldn't be that big to make it unworkable...

[Compyfox]

Yeah, I could, but linging up manually if you have an unstable recording speed is a pain in the butt. Even minimal speed changes make editing difficult. Hence the "syncing".

If it'd be that simple with plugins, I'd totally go for it. I have enough spare channels, I only need the generation and convertion of the (audio) timecode.


But I will get in touch with him, thanks for the mention.

[rv0]

Any takers?

Yes, when it comes to generating FSK.

I was planning to do this in the next version of my Sync Unit software.
MAC+PC & freeware. http://www.rv0.be

As I just released the shuffle update today I'm gonna take a break and work on some other projects first, but rest assured it's on my TODO list and some research has already been done.

[Compyfox]

After reading your page, can you please elaborate how to do that with a tape machine actually?

You synced your host (Logic) with your software to the TB303, but a tape machine doesn't necessarily have a sync din5 port. In my case (Grundik TK747) I have none.

You used your VST plugin with a MPC Sync Track, but that one's hard to come by as well, which is why I'm asking if this is possible in pure software form. DIY cables are no problem - I guess the only thing is the clock creation and recognition.


Regarding the cable:
You use stereo jacks (TSR), is it possible to pull that off with RCA jacks/plugis as well? Seeing the 1 mono TSR's, it should be since in your MPC Sync Track video you only seem to use the "right" channel for the sync signal. Can I take it that the "run" signal is actually the "clock" from the MIDI device/tape machine?


Regarding the "modes" (24, 30, etc):
Can I take it that this is actually a "framerate" or something? Butit's not correlated with "video" timecodes, right? (sorry, barely used any clock sync's, dunno if my card is even capable of doing that)


Thanks for helping out.

[rv0]

After reading your page, can you please elaborate how to do that with a tape machine actually?

Well, the reason I was going to implement an FSK generator in the first place is because there are syncboxes like Korg KMS-30 that turn fsk into DIN sync & midi. As FSK can be sent on any mono audio output this would be a solution for people who dont have a DC-coupled audio interface (which is required for the 5V run signal in DIN sync).

Regarding the cable:
You use stereo jacks (TSR), is it possible to pull that off with RCA jacks/plugis as well? Seeing the 1 mono TSR's, it should be since in your MPC Sync Track video you only seem to use the "right" channel for the sync signal. Can I take it that the "run" signal is actually the "clock" from the MIDI device/tape machine?

for DIN sync, the run and the clock are 2 seperate signals so thats why I use stereo or dual mono jacks.

for FSK you only need a mono output, any output will do.
Fsk works totally different compared to DIN sync, which is just pulses and a steady dc voltage.

Regarding the "modes" (24, 30, etc):
Can I take it that this is actually a "framerate" or something? Butit's not correlated with "video" timecodes, right? (sorry, barely used any clock sync's, dunno if my card is even capable of doing that)

the modes are the amount of pulses per musical quarter note. DIN sync is usually 24 pulses.

FSK is also usually 24, but it's not pulses. this image will probably explain better than i can:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... sk.svg.png


EDIT: P.S. haven't researched Smart FSK yet, will have to look into that.

[Compyfox]

Thanks so far for the insight.

I have two problems however:
1) I don't have a FSK device, which is why I'm looking for a "software" solution
2) How to recognize the sync signal again (audio input needed, no problem on that end) and transform that into playback control codes for the host

If somebody could pull this off, maybe the concept of FSK/DIN sync can be revived, but without the need of a hardware box.

[Compyfox]

Let's revive this thing.

So far, we are actually "able" to create FSK and DIN noise bursts, at least this is what rv0 wrote me via mail and on this board. So we got the "sync signal printing" covered.

What we do not have covered, is the "recognition of the sync signal".

Since I know jack about this (hence my question), I wanted to ask if anybody knows of a plugin/system/host internal tool (in my case, Cubase) that "analyzes" that particular signal, and converts it into MIDI Time Clock or even better, SMTPE.

If there is such a tool already available, maybe we don't need old hardware sync modules anymore.


I watched the videos called "How to integrate analog tape with your DAW" on YouTube, but all they did was actually rolling tape and recording to the DAW from the playback head. They did not go into syncing the tape to the host, in case you are not able to actually "record" the playback head in realtime.

Isn't there really anybody who already pulled this off without the need of specific hardware?

[Tony Ostinato]

maybe im confused , but like in cubase and nuendo you could record the audio up off the tape and then map the midi tempo with a tempo track to match that audio and then proceed with editing from there.

[Compyfox]

Of course that is always possible, but a load of work that I simply want to evade here (hence the syncronisation).

Thing is, it seems there are only hardware modules capable of doing that (in terms of recognition) - which are now (sadly) discontinued and rare. For signal generation there are many possibilities available (see above).

The only missing link is the recognition.

[amiga909]

Any takers?

Yes, when it comes to generating FSK.

I was planning to do this in the next version of my Sync Unit software.
MAC+PC & freeware. http://www.rv0.be

As I just released the shuffle update today I'm gonna take a break and work on some other projects first, but rest assured it's on my TODO list and some research has already been done.

exciting thread!
looks like the innerclock systems solutions, just not that expensive

[rv0]

Some interesting articles:
http://www.philrees.co.uk/articles/timecode.htm
http://www.philrees.co.uk/products/tapesync.htm

[Compyfox]

Thanks for the links, found them recently myself.

But... still the same issues remain:

1) Hardware modules are discontinued and not available anymore
2) this doesn't give me any hint how to "recognize" and convert the signal directly with the host.

Is there really no programmer in the music realm who could that that on?!

There seem to be so many tape users out there, yet nobody can help?

[rv0]

how about something like a Motu Midi Timepiece?

or less expensive, 2nd hand Emagic Unitor 8