Just wondered if anyone else could confirm or deny this - is it Zebra that's weird, or me? On second thoughts don't answer that!
It's to do with Zebra's envelopes in v-slope mode. I'm creating pads with long attack and decay times. When I shift the v-slope fader into minus regions (ie a concave slope) I get a convex attack time with a concave release! Is this supposed to happen? I was expecting attack and release to get the same treatment...
Of course I could assign an MSEG to do the job, but I'd have to use a 'dummy' envelope with instant attack and very long release - gate would cut the release off the MSEG.
Any Suggestions? Thanks.
Zeb's possible v-slope weirdness...
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- KVRAF
- 4141 posts since 11 Aug, 2006 from Texas
Hrm,
The envelopes seem to be operating correctly to me. You can do a simple test yourself to verify.
Pick some "..." parameter and assign it to ModMapper1. Then in ModMapper1 set the type to "MapSmooth" and the Modulator to Env2. Then In Env2 set the attack to max, the decay to 0, sustain max, F/R 0, Release Max and velocity to 0. Set the Env mode to 8sX, v-slope.
In the ModMapper make all the 128 values maximum (zoom helps). Now press a note and watch the yellow line in the modmapper.
With this you can "see" the modulation in action. I saw the following things:
Env slope = 100
Note on, sits at zero for quite a while, then flies up to max rapidly.
Note off, sits at max for quite a while, then flies down to 0 rapidly.
Env slope = 0
Note on, goes from 0 to max in a nice linear fashion.
Note off, goes from max to 0 in a nice linear fashion.
Env slope = -100
note on, flies up to about 80% rapidly and then slowly goes to 100%
note off, flies down to about 20% rapidly and then slowly goes to 0.
This to my ears and to my eyes looks like the v-slope is changing both the A and D stages to the same kind of slope on each end.
The only anomaly I thought I found was it seemed that very sharp sloped envelopes (-100) didn't seem to take as much time as the other two. It seemed to me they were almost quicker envelopes in that vslope mode. I didn't time it, it's just a feeling I got.
Did I miss something?
The envelopes seem to be operating correctly to me. You can do a simple test yourself to verify.
Pick some "..." parameter and assign it to ModMapper1. Then in ModMapper1 set the type to "MapSmooth" and the Modulator to Env2. Then In Env2 set the attack to max, the decay to 0, sustain max, F/R 0, Release Max and velocity to 0. Set the Env mode to 8sX, v-slope.
In the ModMapper make all the 128 values maximum (zoom helps). Now press a note and watch the yellow line in the modmapper.
With this you can "see" the modulation in action. I saw the following things:
Env slope = 100
Note on, sits at zero for quite a while, then flies up to max rapidly.
Note off, sits at max for quite a while, then flies down to 0 rapidly.
Env slope = 0
Note on, goes from 0 to max in a nice linear fashion.
Note off, goes from max to 0 in a nice linear fashion.
Env slope = -100
note on, flies up to about 80% rapidly and then slowly goes to 100%
note off, flies down to about 20% rapidly and then slowly goes to 0.
This to my ears and to my eyes looks like the v-slope is changing both the A and D stages to the same kind of slope on each end.
The only anomaly I thought I found was it seemed that very sharp sloped envelopes (-100) didn't seem to take as much time as the other two. It seemed to me they were almost quicker envelopes in that vslope mode. I didn't time it, it's just a feeling I got.
Did I miss something?
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- u-he
- 30216 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Yes, concave attack corresponds to convex decay/release. It's about the perception of "slow" or "fast".
In the analogue world you would look at the charging curve of a capacitor. An uncharged capacitor (zero load) is easy to charge, so it starts to fill up quickly. But when the load gets bigger, the charge rises slower. On the other hand side, a fully charged capcitor unloads quickly with the process slowing down when the charge diminishes. Hence the curves for "rise" and "fall" look inverted, but it's the natural way of things.
Urs
In the analogue world you would look at the charging curve of a capacitor. An uncharged capacitor (zero load) is easy to charge, so it starts to fill up quickly. But when the load gets bigger, the charge rises slower. On the other hand side, a fully charged capcitor unloads quickly with the process slowing down when the charge diminishes. Hence the curves for "rise" and "fall" look inverted, but it's the natural way of things.
Urs
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- KVRist
- 354 posts since 19 Jul, 2007
in florian anwander's book on synthesizers, he describes that the perceived extra punch in the minimoog's envelopes comes from a short "hold" period between attack and decay, which makes the tone somewhat compressed sounding.
how is this achieved then? if i choose the convex decay, i will have the concave ("slow") attack, no?
how is this achieved then? if i choose the convex decay, i will have the concave ("slow") attack, no?
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- KVRian
- 1184 posts since 13 May, 2004 from SF Bay Area, California
That can be achieved using the Fall/Rise and Sus2 features of the Zebra envelopes. This guide may be helpful.fas1piano wrote:a short "hold" period between attack and decay
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 51 posts since 19 Mar, 2009
If only the MSEGs could be selected from the Voice Mix.... then you could use them as replacement envelopes, and have whatever attack, release, sustain, loop you wanted. Oh well!