virtual keyboard suggestions

[Krakatau]

First of all let me congratulate you for the overall concept of a free/cheap easy-to-use host and let me then introduce these ideas that weren't primary destinated to this particular forum

i've been using logic without physical keyboard for a while during my last travel in Burkina faso and inevitably it leaves me with a few ideas related to their possible improvements

In any cases, it is almost impossible to recreate a usuable chromatic keyboard IMO, except perhaps for some gifted virtuosos, obviously it is a replacement tool for composers rather than performers (good luck to those !)

So my first impression is that, considering also that most of the popular, ethnic or classical musics are ,even in the most sophisticated compositions, based only on one or at least, a succession of diatonic scales that are never involved simultaneously, there will be then, much more effective keys configs to implement


For instance...this is just an idea :

- in the first line, from the f1 to f15 tabs would be recreated two octaves of any diatonic scales
- the second line would be dedicated to chromatic transpositions (11 tabs needed)
- the third one would be dedicated to the different types of scale (major, natural minor. melodic minor, etc...)
- etc...

...this for the most necessary cases, and while extrapolating :


Dedicated configurations could also be created for many sophisticated ethnic scale, eventually in combination with a real keyboard, etc..., maybe it would make sense then to make it scala compatible ?
----


Concerning the one recently implememented in Mu.lab, is there a way to save customised configuration, as presets ?

[MuTools]

1) Other scales are not yet supported

2) I've added a note on the wishlist about opening/saving Virtual Keyboard setups

[Krakatau]

thanks for the quick reply

also interesting to see how, in the move of your overall policy, you answer are accurate and simple...

[MuTools]

Regarding alternative note scales: When this is implmented, i would implement it as a global scale map which is defined per session. Then all notes will use this scale map. Do you agree that this would be a good system? Only problem could be the VSTi plugins as they receive keys not pitches. But nothing much to do about that, afaik.

[Krakatau]

Regarding alternative note scales: When this is implmented, i would implement it as a global scale map which is defined per session. Then all notes will use this scale map. Do you agree that this would be a good system? Only problem could be the VSTi plugins as they receive keys not pitches. But nothing much to do about that, afaik.

If i understand you correctly, it would be perfect for compositions (session?) that are based on a single scale with or without modal transpositions, but would be problematic if you want to create scale transitions

And i assume that, at the time a physical keyboard is involved, the easier way would be simply to disable and switch automatically to MIDI standard

Only problem could be the VSTi plugins as they receive keys not pitches

Assuming that this issue is largely solved yet, as far as i can judge by the customisation of your Virtual keyboard, does it imply that you already took into consideration to implement non-chromatic scales ?

[pljones]

Personally, I see MIDI note number to pitch mapping as something that sits inside a particular synth module and configurable per instance.

Krakatau seemed to want a different UI for playing notes: one based around a note range and chosen scale, to make it easier/faster to use (choose the right notes) when a real keyboard is unavailable. I would see this as done, perhaps, through a patch system for the Virtual MIDI Keyboard (VMK). But the output would still be MIDI events and the resultant pitch would depend on the synth module.

You could add micro-tuning support to the VMK through Pitch Bend, I suppose...

[MuTools]

does it imply that you already took into consideration to implement non-chromatic scales?

No, not yet for the near future, but maybe in a further future. As the topic passes by, i wanted to know your idea about it as you seem to have experience in using non-chromatic scales.

[MuTools]

Personally, I see MIDI note number to pitch mapping as something that sits inside a particular synth module and configurable per instance.

Wow, then when you make a non-chromatic cong, you have to setup each synth again? Isn't that a lot of overhead when making music?

Krakatau seemed to want a different UI for playing notes: one based around a note range and chosen scale, to make it easier/faster to use (choose the right notes) when a real keyboard is unavailable. I would see this as done, perhaps, through a patch system for the Virtual MIDI Keyboard (VMK). But the output would still be MIDI events and the resultant pitch would depend on the synth module.

Yes, loading/saving preset setups should solve it.

You could add micro-tuning support to the VMK through Pitch Bend, I suppose...

For the internal synths there is no prob, we don't need the pitchbend trick. And for VSTis: You can't know the pitchbend range setting of a VSTi, so the picthbend trick still is a guess.

[pljones]

Wow, then when you make a non-chromatic cong, you have to setup each synth again?

Why would you do that? You'd just switch tunings - on the fly, preferably, during the song. Where's the problem here (if the synth supports changing tuning maps)?

You could add micro-tuning support to the VMK through Pitch Bend, I suppose...

For the internal synths there is no prob, we don't need the pitchbend trick. And for VSTis: You can't know the pitchbend range setting of a VSTi, so the picthbend trick still is a guess.

You can set pitch bend range, too, of course - painful if you had to do it before each note, though. But this could perhaps "wrap" a VSTi and know it only needed to send pitch bend range once, somehow, saving the range as part of its tuning map patch? (That way you can set it up once per VSTi - loading the tuning set up along with its embedded instrument. Although switching maps would want to be possible without reloading the VSTi and might entail changing the bend range, so some thought required...) Anyway, working with a VSTi that doesn't support micro-tuning has to be harder than working with a module that does, no way around it! Just have to try to make it as easy and obvious what to do as possible. If this goes ahead.

[MuTools]

Wow, then when you make a non-chromatic cong, you have to setup each synth again?

Why would you do that? You'd just switch tunings - on the fly, preferably, during the song. Where's the problem here (if the synth supports changing tuning maps)?

I mean, in your proposal to make the scale definition per module, then you would have to tell each module which scale to use, right?

You can set pitch bend range, too, of course...If this goes ahead.

Yep, sending a pitch bend range could help. Wonder how many VSTis support that though.

[pljones]

I mean, in your proposal to make the scale definition per module, then you would have to tell each module which scale to use, right?

Well, it would default to "standard tuning", presumably, and - per Krakatau's description - you'd have a few settings to tweak to select anything else. Automatable via patch selection?

Wonder how many VSTis support that though.

Well, it's part of the standard MIDI spec, so you can but try... (SFZ does, IIRC, for soundfont playback. I expect Kontakt does, too.)

[MuTools]

I think having to make a setting per module may be overkill.
Atoh, having it defined per session may be too rough/global.
Nothing decided yet.

Anyway, it was interesting to touch the topic for a moment, and i've added some notes to the relevant item on the WL, but it's not yet a near future plan. Focussing back on near future stuff. Thanks for your input!

[pljones]

I think having to make a setting per module may be overkill.

Well, you'd only add it when you wanted it, I was thinking.

[MuTools]

Sure but imagine you make a song with scale X.

Then you would have to tell each and every synth you insert: hey i want you to use scale X. That's not comfortable imho.

That's why i would rather go for a scale setting per composition.
You're not going to mix scales in a composition, i think, as that would sound Very weird.

But making compositions in anoher scal does make sense of course, e.g. making indian music with MU.LAB.

[pljones]

Then you would have to tell each and every synth you insert: hey i want you to use scale X. That's not comfortable imho.

Or bung them in a MUX and address them by MIDI Channel?

But OK, having it composition-wide but changeable during the composition would be fine... I do a lot of weird when I'm jamming - many of the most fun jams are with the "experimentalists".