Chord/Scale Request in the Piano Roll and the MU.LAB Loop System

[liquidsound]

QUESTION:

What is Music?

Never mind the dictionary. That's Box thinking. That's just a seed for a thinking process of agreement but then we need to be human.

So, What is Music....

Ask that to a flower...

[sorohanro]

@Nielzie
Man, I'm not an "Academist", actually I think that sometimes the academical way of thinking put you in a very small box.
That's why I'm loving Mu.Lab, because same thing you can do in different ways, all correct, all different and you have freedom to make it your way.

One of my favorite composers don't know notation
He play with one finger on a keyboard the melodies and other people write those down.
Still, he compose the melody, he don't relay on a plugin to write it for him (not to write, to compose... how to make myself clear... he invent the melody, he is the creator).

Are you familiar with the "semi idle" games ?
Games that you press the "play" button and the playing process is automated and you just watch ? Isn't that stealing all the fun ?

Why not take chances and make mistakes ?
Why not learn from them ?
Why make a impersonal track when you can make it personal and it can express your feelings ?

Bottom line, if you are a creator you should create.
Those kind of "helpers" don't really helps you. Those will cripple your creative side, letting you helpless and handicapped when you don't have them anymore.

@liquidsound
What is Music?
For me it's an art form in which I express my deepest feelings sometimes, it's the way I like to present my soul, my interior universe. It's the way I translate feelings.

From a technical way of looking at it, I need help from:
a music instrument, to play it
another musician or a sequencer, to play the harmony, bass line or other lines
a program to record it

What I don't need help for, it's the melody, the very idea of what I want to express.

[Juan Mendoza]

Hi mihai and others,
this post is becoming something vital

Why not take chances and make mistakes ?
Why not learn from them ?
Why make a impersonal track when you can make it personal and it can express your feelings ?

Ok, that's absolutely different from what you stated before in other posts and i agree with you here, also because that's the way i make my music. But this all not implies that eventually you can't play with one of those musical tools/toys, and while having fun, create something interesting or even new!

Bottom line, if you are a creator you should create.
Those kind of "helpers" don't really helps you. Those will cripple your creative side, letting you helpless and handicapped when you don't have them anymore.

I understand your point of view but just as an extremate way of thinking. I think it's not good or even musical to leave all the work to automated processes/tools but... Do you believe that... let's say Vangelis, didn't create his own music? Because judgind by your "rules" an arpegiator should be qualified as a cheting tool that will cripple your creative side, letting you helpless and handicapped when you don't have them anymore.

Really, i still dont catch the idea! Maybe because alongside with the classical music, i love so much more styles of music that in some cases use this "cheating" techniques a lot.

@liquidsound
What is Music?
For me it's an art form in which I express my deepest feelings sometimes, it's the way I like to present my soul, my interior universe. It's the way I translate feelings.

I trully believe that all us here fell the music much like you! But what does this have to do with music SW tools or notation or else? Following your rule, i can also express my deepest feelings twisting a filter or a distortion, and i'll not call anyone a cheater for using an LFO instead of his hand.

From a technical way of looking at it, I need help from:
a music instrument, to play it
another musician or a sequencer, to play the harmony, bass line or other lines
a program to record it

What I don't need help for, it's the melody, the very idea of what I want to express.

Well, some others may be in the oposite situation, they may not need any of the help you need and maybe they need help in other areas. What's the problem, does that make one better than other?

Just to be clear: I'm not a "pro" of using such tools, never used or wanted to any of the ones mentioned in this post or similar, just because i don't need them. As much i could use an arpegiator from time to time. My only tools are Mulab and my brain. But if i'm posting this is just to reply some of your statements that souded a bit discriminatory to my ears. My mind is wide open and i don't have a problem if someone founds X tool or X tip useful to create his music.

From now i leave this thread, i need to trim a lot of samples and i don't have a cheating tool that does this for me

[pljones]

@pljones
You read words instead of trying to understand the message.\

No, I was just taking the extreme contrary view to make the point that for all the deficiencies (except those I chose to agree with ), they might not really be deficiencies of the tool - it really depends on the circumstance. It's not the purpose of the tool that's important. To a major extent it's not how the tool is used that's important. It is, as you say, the ability to chose and decide appropriately. I will strongly agree with that. But I felt you were telling people "You can't chose to want this tool to exist because it will ruin the universe for everyone for eternity!!!" .

Juan said it well.

I'm a drummer. I can write four bars of a melody. Then I loop it. Then I write another four bars of bass. And loop that. Maybe add some evolving tones and have them in a couple of places. Cut'n'paste a bit.

Then I drum. I love drumming. With the above running, set up correctly, the looping overlapping and evolving, it's a changing backdrop and I can work with it. (Better yet to be playing live, of course! )

[sorohanro]

Actually after thinking a bit more, occurred to me that I'm the one lacking imagination here

Think on a live performance, you improvising a solo over some sequenced chords that you really really like the feel, the rhythm and the sound... then you have the idea of "why not go to X tonality ?", press a key and WHAM !!! you have same chords that you like, in the register where sound good (not transposed higher or lower) but hitting the notes of the other tonality... and you can focus on soloing...
Actually not bad...

[sorohanro]

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... highlight=
That ?

[sunhome]

thanks for that one, but had no luck as the downloads are all seem broken

Have you seen this ????? :-o:-o:-o:-o:-o youtube video here ...

that would be from this thread .... http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 06&start=0 and the

Regards, James

[Juan Mendoza]

There's another video that's amazing, i dream with a tool with this realtime soul

EDIT: Anyway, seems that the Zyklus development has stopped or delayed for so loong. Maybe Jo finds the idea interesting

[Simon Posford]

yes this soft is amazing it was develooped with max/msp

[sunhome]

I think I found a tool to do this with a video;

http://www.7aliens.com/vst-midi-w2-harmonizer.php

7Aliens W2 Harmonizer

is scale based VST Instrument Plug-in MIDI Harmonizer and Scale Viewer that converts single incoming MIDI notes into full chords based on selected scale. Full version contains 91 scales which with 12 semitones makes 1092 scales in total.

[saichele]

The original premise of this thread was an excellent request: a piano roll in which only notes within a given key/scale are available. This is now my #1 DAW feature request.

I've seen the previously-mentioned sequencer for Max4Live (Rozzer) and have also played with the Thesys sequencer. Of course there is also microtuning built into numerous synths, but that is a bit of a kludge.

[pljones]

Of course there is also microtuning built into numerous synths, but that is a bit of a kludge.

I'd hardly say that -- MIDI defines a system of 128 note event numbers. It's entirely down to the synth to define how those numbers are interpreted. MIDI has no definition of pitch at all. (Even "pitch bend" is just a value over a 4K range that the synth can do with what it will.) One would, therefore, expect it to be the synth implementing microtuning, rather than considering that approach to be a kludge.

(IIRC, General MIDI, however, does define the pitch implied by the MIDI Note On event note number, with A440 = MIDI Note 60.)

[Simon Posford]

For those who want to have a look at the manual of Zyklus Improvisor

http://www.vyla.co.uk/

[Passing Bye]

The original premise of this thread was an excellent request: a piano roll in which only notes within a given key/scale are available. This is now my #1 DAW feature request.

I guess this ain't going to happen 5 years later, shame, because this is really neat feature that is not that uncommon today

[MuTools]

It's not that it's not possible to only use notes of a certain scale in the piano roll: Just only use such notes. And then even if you would put a note on a 'wrong' key then you'll hear it and can correct it. BTW note that sometimes a 'wrong' key can be very colorful, musically. Last but not least: You could also insert a Note Mapper module before your synth and force a scale that way. Conclusion: many creative options already!