Problem with recording in the new 3.1 version

[sorohanro]

Hi everyone.
I've seen video on youtube and I was very very happy. This was one of the things that I was craving for a long time

Just imagine how real drums recording can go now

Well, after installing and running it, my enthusiasm shrunk a bit. I was trying to record a guitar part and I just couldn't get it right. The problem was that I was ALWAYS late, so I made a test and apparently I wasn't the "suckyest" guitarist. The problem is latency, problem that I didn't had on the older version.
Here I made a test, made a sound with a VSTi and recorded it. First "clean" and second through a distortion.


As you can see, First recording is later about 1/64th. With recorded instruments the difference is about 1/16th which make almost impossible to record live instruments together with MIDI controlled VSTi.

Is there any setting to fix it ? is there something I miss ?
I didn't have this problem in the previous version.

---------------------------------
Also, Mu.Lab used to offer you the option to save or discard a recorded file. Now it records it (you don't have anymore the "cancel" button) and it's named automatically.
I used to be able to name my files (ex: guitar 1-verse, guitar 2-verse) now all are "AudioRecorder 6456754365678765-9876546578097654678"... so it's a bit messier to see which is the guitar you wanted, which is the voice track...etc.

If anyone know where/ how to fix

[MuTools]

Here I made a test, made a sound with a VSTi and recorded it. First "clean" and second through a distortion.

As you can see, First recording is later about 1/64th. With recorded instruments the difference is about 1/16th which make almost impossible to record live instruments together with MIDI controlled VSTi.

I'm confused by your description.

What did you actually record? A guitar or a VSTi? Or both at the same time?

If you're recording (an) audio input(s) then MU.LAB will compensate for any audio input latency the audio device will have (and reports to the app!).

Not all devices are equally accurate about that and so you can tune your system if necessary. For more details please see http://www.mutools.com/mulab/docs/recording.html

If you're recording the output of (a) plugin(s) then no such compensation is applied as everything is automatically in perfect sync.

Or am i missing your point?

Also, Mu.Lab used to offer you the option to save or discard a recorded file. Now it records it (you don't have anymore the "cancel" button) and it's named automatically.
I used to be able to name my files (ex: guitar 1-verse, guitar 2-verse) now all are "AudioRecorder 6456754365678765-9876546578097654678"... so it's a bit messier to see which is the guitar you wanted, which is the voice track...etc.
If anyone know where/ how to fix

Right-click the audio part -> Rename.

To speed up workflow, you could assign a shortcut key e.g. R to the "Rename" function. Then just click a part and press R. Works quick, imho.

[MuTools]

PS:

I checked audio recording the output of a drumsequence (using the 'DrumSet' patch) together with some microphone input (some beatboxing in the mic), each going to its own audio recorder => 2 audio tracks at the same time.

The audio recorded drum sequence is in perfect sync with the original, as expected, and my beatboxing voice also sounds in sync with the recorded drums, so i don't hear anything wrong here.

Curious for your further details.

[sorohanro]

Thanks for your (always fast) answer.

Here I made a test, made a sound with a VSTi and recorded it. First "clean" and second through a distortion.

As you can see, First recording is later about 1/64th. With recorded instruments the difference is about 1/16th which make almost impossible to record live instruments together with MIDI controlled VSTi.

I'm confused by your description.

What did you actually record? A guitar or a VSTi? Or both at the same time?

First I recorded a guitar, real.
The track was so messy that I considered to give up guitar. Then I thought "maybe it's not me", so I tried to record MIDI, then record the VSTi output as wav/ audio, like this:

And from the VSTi output I had latency like this:

On real instruments it's a bit bigger but I can't measure it. Here you see the beginning of the MIDI note and how the audio file starts later. On a real instrument I can't record anything (or maybe a video with my hand moving on guitar... ? but I don't have a video camera).

Right-click the audio part -> Rename.

This rename only in the program but the actual file is still named "AudioRecorder 6456754365678765-9876546578097654678" and when I want to clean the audio folder of unwanted/unused tracks, or edit some takes when Mu.Lab is not on, this make it quite difficult.


Sorry if my English lack clarity.
I think I might have same problem in Romanian too

[MuTools]

First I recorded a guitar, real.
The track was so messy that I considered to give up guitar.

Ok, to avoid confusion: Was it messy because of technical problem with MU.LAB? Or was it just musically messy meaning that you couldn't find the right vibe?

Then I thought "maybe it's not me", so I tried to record MIDI, then record the VSTi output as wav/ audio, like this:

Please help me: Is that the DSK Electric GuitarZ plugin?

I downloaded and tried it as in your picture and i don't get any delay.
It's in perfect sync just as with recording the drums earlier:



When recording the audio of a plugin, the audio recording shoud be in perfect (i.e. sample accurate) sync.

I don't understand how you can get the delay

Right-click the audio part -> Rename.

This rename only in the program but the actual file is still named "AudioRecorder 6456754365678765-9876546578097654678" and when I want to clean the audio folder of unwanted/unused tracks, or edit some takes when Mu.Lab is not on, this make it quite difficult.

Are you serious there are that many digits in the file name??

Normally recorded filenames are structured with date and time of recording like Recording-YYYYMMDD-HHMMSS.Wav.

Besides this, i've added a note on the wishlist about being able to rename the audio file itself.

[sorohanro]

Ok, to avoid confusion: Was it messy because of technical problem with MU.LAB? Or was it just musically messy meaning that you couldn't find the right vibe?

The guitar was so out of sync that was almost impossible to fit it in the track. I had to drag it forward with 1/16th to fit.

Please help me: Is that the DSK Electric GuitarZ plugin?

I downloaded and tried it as in your picture and i don't get any delay.
It's in perfect sync just as with recording the drums earlier:

Yep, DSK Electric GuitarZ.
Actually in my example that was.

I don't understand how you can get the delay

Neither do I
Maybe it's my system, but I didn't have that with the older version.
Any idea what to try to fix ? some soundcard settings ? some user preferences in Mu.Lab that can be tweaked ?

Are you serious there are that many digits in the file name??

Normally recorded filenames are structured with date and time of recording like Recording-YYYYMMDD-HHMMSS.Wav.

I guess it is, but I really really hate numbers and I get dizzy when comes even to most basic math

Besides this, i've added a note on the wishlist about being able to rename the audio file itself.

Thank you.
You are pure gold

[sorohanro]

GOT IT !!!!
Here's what is going wrong:
You put just a recorder and no output (goes default to "Audio Output") and it's perfectly in sync.
When the recorder have the output routed to a mixer rack (for monitoring/ fx/ volume control) it have latency, big time.


First line, the VSTi that I record.
Second line, the recording (in sync) without a specific output.
Third line, same recorder, just routed to a rack (and not in sync anymore).

I guess as a fast fix I can just not route the output and move the recorded material on a different line, routed to the mixer rack that I want.

[MuTools]

I don't understand how you can get the delay

Neither do I
Maybe it's my system, but I didn't have that with the older version.
Any idea what to try to fix ? some soundcard settings ? some user preferences in Mu.Lab that can be tweaked?

Ok, lets rationalize this.

Lets skip recording from audio input and lets first concentrate on recording the output of a module.

I've made a simple MuSession with a drumsequence, and with a properly set up audio recorder:

http://www.mutools.com/mulab/temp/test.zip

Please open that musession, make sure the drums play, then stop, rewind and hit record.

Record a couple of bars, then hit record again i.e. stop recording.

A track is created with a new audiopart with the audio recording.

Now play both parts i.e. the orignal sequence part together with its recorded audio part.

The volume should simply double. No phasing or no flamming because of out-of-sync stuff.

Can you confirm this?

[MuTools]

GOT IT !!!!
Here's what is going wrong:
You put just a recorder and no output (goes default to "Audio Output") and it's perfectly in sync.
When the recorder have the output routed to a mixer rack (for monitoring/ fx/ volume control) it have latency, big time.

Our posts crossed.

Researching your new feedback...

[sorohanro]

Thank you.




P.S.
Don't over work, now that I found a quick fix I'm fine with it.

[MuTools]

Issue confirmed.

Still researching the reason...

[MuTools]

GOT IT !!!!
Here's what is going wrong:
You put just a recorder and no output (goes default to "Audio Output") and it's perfectly in sync.
When the recorder have the output routed to a mixer rack (for monitoring/ fx/ volume control) it have latency, big time.

Can you tell me at which buffer size you're working?

On your picture the delay seems really big.
How much delay time is that? Is it a second or...
I don't see the timebar nor the tempo, otherwise i could deduct it from there.
Can you please give an estimation how much delay you got there.
Could it be that it's about 1 buffer size in time?

Another question: Is it 100% repeatbale on your system?
If yes, then is the delay everytime the same?

Sorry for all these questions but i'm heavily puzzling here.

[robenestobenz]

Also, Mu.Lab used to offer you the option to save or discard a recorded file. Now it records it (you don't have anymore the "cancel" button) and it's named automatically.

I just use undo instead of cancel (I have this set up on my MIDI keyboard too... hooray for MuLab's shortcut system). This doesn't solve the problem of takes piling up on your hard drive though. Here's hoping for a "delete selected/unused from disk" function at some point.

I used to be able to name my files (ex: guitar 1-verse, guitar 2-verse) now all are "AudioRecorder 6456754365678765-9876546578097654678"... so it's a bit messier to see which is the guitar you wanted, which is the voice track...etc.

Yes, not being able to rename the underlying file has been a problem for me too. I actually prefer not having the name dialog pop up every time though. Perhaps a preference for mulab.txt?

I've never noticed this latency problem in 3.1. But then my playing stinks so even if I did I probably wouldn't know the difference, hah. I'll do a deliberate test when I get home.

[sorohanro]

How much delay time is that? Is it a second or...
I don't see the timebar nor the tempo, otherwise i could deduct it from there.
Can you please give an estimation how much delay you got there.
Could it be that it's about 1 buffer size in time?

I'm not really good with numbers and I have no idea on how big is the buffer size. On my settings is put to 1024 samples but as reaction "in real life" it reacts different every time.

The approximate size is between 1/64 and 1/128. Was a big zoom in the screen shot.

Another question: Is it 100% repeatbale on your system?
If yes, then is the delay everytime the same?

Yep and yep.
Anyway, I found out a "workaround".

Yes, not being able to rename the underlying file has been a problem for me too. I actually prefer not having the name dialog pop up every time though. Perhaps a preference for mulab.txt?

Maybe something like this:
You route the out of recorder to one tracl (let's say "Guitar) and you have the automated naming system naming it to Guitar-take1...take2...take3...
or something

[MuTools]

I'm not really good with numbers and I have no idea on how big is the buffer size. On my settings is put to 1024 samples but as reaction "in real life" it reacts different every time.

The approximate size is between 1/64 and 1/128. Was a big zoom in the screen shot.

Last questions:

What was the tempo of that session?

And which samplerate are you working on?

Thanks for your answers!