Stacked Oscillators...

[johnnytluxury]

Zebras manual is incomplete about this, but I was wondering if stacking oscillators on one channel creates an FM sound. If you have Ableton operators you know what I mean, stacking an osc upon another has ones freq modulating the lower ones. I tried it, sweeping the modulators frequency, didnt sound too fm-ish, but then I put the osc on its own channel and the sound was the same.In a nutshell, what I'm asking is does Zebras regular osc do FM to each other, or is the only FM is achieved only by using the FM oscs? Makes sense?

[bmrzycki]

what I'm asking is does Zebras regular osc do FM to each other, or is the only FM is achieved only by using the FM oscs? Makes sense?

Howard Scarr has been commissioned by Urs to write a manual for Zebra2, it'll get there someday.

In the mean-time to answer your question, yes FM oscillators can interact with each other.

Take a look at Michael Kastrup's excellent Zebra2 FM School presets and comments to learn some of the basics.

Essentially you need to change the FM Osc type, it's the small yellow words below the FMO # on the module. The options that contain the word "self" do not modulate input. The rest of the options do apply FM to the incoming signal.

Also take a look into the Filter FM knob on the XMF filters. The Filter has two inputs if you look at it. Normally they both are attached to the same lane. If you right-click on the XMF module and select "Sidechain #" you can select a different lane for FM input. Then by setting the Filter FM knob you can apply a certain amount of FM-style sound to the XMF filter input on the main signal path.

It's not 1:1 the same as Ableton's Operator or FM8 but the sounds generated can be FM-like. Again, check out Michael Kastrup's (mkastrup) free presets for Zebra at the Zebra2 PatchLib.

I hope this helps. Cheers!

[johnnytluxury]

In the mean-time to answer your question, yes FM oscillators can interact with each other.

Thanks, but this is not what I'm asking. I know about the dedicated FM oscs, if you'll note in my query. I also know about the XMF, but I didnt ask about that. I'm only asking about the regular wave oscs and how they and only they interact with each other. If they are stacked on top of each other, do they modulate in the same way Abletons Operator does.

[justin3am]

No, the oscillators are just summed in that configuration.

[johnnytluxury]

No, the oscillators are just summed in that configuration.

thanks Justin. Sucks though, as Operator allows different waves as modulators, and I can get some sick timbres, but with Zebra and only using FMOs, the timbres are quite sane. Urs, I'm hoping you read this, I think if you stack regular oscs you should get freq modulated waveforms, works for Operator, and works well!

[xh3rv]

Sucks though, as Operator allows different waves as modulators, and I can get some sick timbres, but with Zebra and only using FMOs, the timbres are quite sane.

Don't know if you've tried this, but the FMO will accept *anything* above it on the grid as a modulator*. This is very, very powerful. As an example, there's a patch 'HS DY7 Add Pad' in the factory bank's Pianoids category that shows a couple instances where OSC modules feed FMOs. Just an OSC->FMO has endless potential and putting literally anything->FMO is endless on top of that. In terms of modulators, in Zebra you can do just what Operator does and barely scratch the surface of what's possible

It might be interesting to note that in Howard's patch, the OSC modules are outputting something that's FMish in the sense that it's pretty simple in terms of harmonics - this is visible in the OSC tabs, they're sparse spectral/additive waveforms which don't cause a complete jungle of sidebands when carried by an FMO. With oscillator effects, any wavetable can turn into something harmonically sparse before it hits the FMO - a little different that what can be gotten from FMOs functioning as modulators, but clean enough that the FMO carrier doesn't begin to snarl. This is one of my favorite tricks in Zebra, not something just any synth can do, and productive.

* - Unless the FMO is set to one of the FM Self modes, where it functions more like an ordinary oscillator and just sums what it generates by itself with whatever it's input is. The other modes as well as the 'generator' fields in the FMO tab (pure sine, quadric sine, sine shift etc.) give the FMO module some flexibility as a carrier - it isn't quite the same as in Operator, but comparable.

[justin3am]

No, the oscillators are just summed in that configuration.

Sucks though.

Meh, it's never really bothered me. I don't really get along well with Operator.

[johnnytluxury]

Meh, it's never really bothered me. I don't really get along well with Operator.

I guess I can say I never really fuxxor'd with fm much until Operator, and since then, its kinda my workflow now. Its really logical, fm wise, it makes sense. The osc above the modulates the one below, and so on. And since its a visual representation, it stays with you. I just assumed Zebra would be like that, being that you can stack oscs. So I guess I'd ask why even make it possible (stacking) when all it achieves is a summed (I assume louder) output? But I'm definitely not knocking Zebra, it kicks Operators ass all day and night and is my fav synth period.

[jupiter8]

So I guess I'd ask why even make it possible (stacking) when all it achieves is a summed (I assume louder) output?

Because everyone and their uncles and aunts wants supersaws which is a shitload of sawtooth waves slightly detuned from each other. I estimate the answer to 90 % of the questions in the sound design forum is a supersaw.

[mcnoone]

So I guess I'd ask why even make it possible (stacking) when all it achieves is a summed (I assume louder) output?

There are all the other modules besides oscillators that can be affected by stacking and routing though. Comb, FM, Ring modulators, etc...
Maybe if you experiment staking osc-comb-fm-filter, add lots of modulation sources, you might be surprised by what you find.
After spending years using Zebra, I still manage to get that "wow" sound, feeling many times, just by trying different stacking and routing orders.
You should also try to spend sometime with just 1 osc, and try out different osc spectra FX settings, as they can really make great changes to the tone, very easily.

[pdxindy]

So I guess I'd ask why even make it possible (stacking) when all it achieves is a summed (I assume louder) output?

It is much more convenient than having to use a separate channel for each osc and then having to use mix modules to mix them into one to send to a filter...

[Howard]

So I guess I'd ask why even make it possible (stacking) when all it achieves is a summed (I assume louder) output?

Doesn't sound like you quite "get" what Zebra's main grid is about, Johnny.

[johnnytluxury]

So I guess I'd ask why even make it possible (stacking) when all it achieves is a summed (I assume louder) output?

It is much more convenient than having to use a separate channel for each osc and then having to use mix modules to mix them into one to send to a filter...

I'd stand up and applause but you still wouldn't be here to see me cheer. Perfect answer. Why? Cause I'm spending my time trying to replicate presets i did with Albino, and its a bit of a different structure, being how routing oscs to the filter, and with Zebra and the seperate grid positions, I was using a lot of mixer modules to get that right blend of osc to filter ratio. I *never* thought of stacking the osc so that they can combine and go to x filter w/o mixer need and the complexities that brings... You, sir, are a genius! Well, I am too, but you said it first.

[johnnytluxury]

So I guess I'd ask why even make it possible (stacking) when all it achieves is a summed (I assume louder) output?

Doesn't sound like you quite "get" what Zebra's main grid is about, Johnny.

Because I didn't understand its complete usage in one go? Well, hail to thee. My question was quite valid and in now way did I assume full knowledge of Zebra structure. pdxindy did me full justice. Get on with that manual.

All we need is answers, not criticisms.

[Howard]

Get on with that manual.

Yes, I MUST! Rotten cold stopped me

All we need is answers, not criticisms.

I didn't understand your problem, I wasn't criticizing.