Zebra X?

[Howard]

It might not be obvious why less options are an advantage here. Let's just say, total freedom of choice invites for thoughtless waste and sloppy sound design while restrictions foster thought. It's the same reasoning that's behind my reluctance to add sample playback.

Well put, Urs!

[N59]

The bottom line with more (and then eventually even more) msegs, lfos, env, etc...

They will not make it easier to program a sound.

If you can't do it with what is provided, you probably haven't thought outside the box.

They will not make your sounds better.

Humans with insatiable needs will live anomic, normless and infinitely unsatisfied lives (Durkheim).

[AL321]

The bottom line with more (and then eventually even more) msegs, lfos, env, etc...

They will not make it easier to program a sound.

Obviously just your opinion. Not mine though. With things like leads and simple basses, i agree, Zebra has all we need, but for more exotic, electronic sounds, and constantly filtered DnB / electro-style basses, it's not long before i've used all four MSEGs, and am scared to touch anything, in case i ruin the patch.

If you can't do it with what is provided, you probably haven't thought outside the box.

Maybe you could give us a little hint what's out there then? I've tried copy/pasting MSEGs to a switched off backup Zebra, to store ideas, and at the moment i'm using Zebrify to take on some filter duties for Zebra. Both methods are pretty clumsy and i lose flexibility, but it does help. But just a couple more MSEGs would make a massive difference to me.

They will not make your sounds better.

Agreed (for most cases), but i would sure make better sounds, faster.

Humans with insatiable needs will live anomic, normless and infinitely unsatisfied lives (Durkheim).

Nah, i just make sounds faster in Surge and Alchemy.
Insatiable needs? I only need a couple more MSEGs, to be honest.


And just to repeat my last post, i'm not complaining! Zebra is still my go-to synth for most things, but if i want to create a really unique sound that i haven't heard in any presets, i usually turn to Surge, so i know the limitations wont pop up and interrupt my inspiration.

[MitchK1989]

well, you do own surge and zebra, they're both different synths with different workflows, and I wouldn't trade either of them in as they're good at VERY different things (surge, as you mentioned, allows for some really complex modulations in a really simple manner, but the way surge makes modulation so easy wouldn't work in a synth with less fixed architecture like zebra where the modulators don't appear until you select them as a source for a sound module)

Honestly, it just sounds like the exact thing you're looking for can't and won't be done in zebra, and that's why we own multiple synths... At least that's my justification for owning so god damn many wavetable synths (Komplete /w massive + absynth, rapture, zebra, surge...)

[AL321]

Honestly, it just sounds like the exact thing you're looking for can't and won't be done in zebra, and that's why we own multiple synths... At least that's my justification for owning so god damn many wavetable synths (Komplete /w massive + absynth, rapture, zebra, surge...)

You're right. Different synths, different strengths and workflows. I'm not saying Zebra fails because i can't work at the speed i do in Surge. For me, Zebra beats Surge on more levels than Surge beats Zebra, and i find them both a really awesome combo.
Really, i just wanted to make the point that something as simple as just a couple more MSEGs would actually make a huge difference to the way i work, and i'm not just asking for more because i think more = better.

I know it probably wont happen, but when Urs said he could do it with two lines of code, i figured i should just throw my view out there. But it's not something i wanna have arguments about with people, so i'll just shut up about it.
I think he's planning on adding snap to grid for the oscillators in a coming update, which will also be a big help to my workflow, so i got plenty to look forward to.

[xh3rv]

just a couple more MSEGs would make a massive difference to me.

I'm curious about what kinds of sounds you're making! You could post something

Reading this thread, I'm thinking I generally rely on host automation or MIDI cc stuff for, sort of performance-oriented qualities, this can capture performance ... this is a little different than using Zebra's tools ... for really screwing with sounds, I use Live and it's a decent sandbox for that sort of thing, but no sequencer does everything, it's interesting to think about how different sequencers can promote different ways of doing things.

[AL321]

I'm curious about what kinds of sounds you're making! You could post something

Actually, it's not the fact that the sounds i make in Surge sound more amazing than the sounds that Zebra can make. It's more the fact that when i'm making a patch, i need a patch that can morph into at least 3 or 4 different variations of the main sound, to keep it sounding interesting throughout a 6 minute track (i'm talking about dance music here).
Trying to keep the main sound intact, while trying to create these little alternate morphs is a bit of a struggle for me, with only 4 MSEGs. It usually means i can only keep 1 MSEG spare for experimenting, and once i've made something on it, i'm now not able to compare that MSEG with any new experiments, unless i want to start copy/pasting from another Zebra.

That said, i'm sure i've got quite a few presets in my Surge folder that i would struggle to recreate in Zebra, because the sound is the result of getting a lucky resonance from 2 or 3 different envelopes.
I'm not saying it's not possible in Zebra, but the fact that you need to plan everything out, and only use an MSEG when it's necessary, means it just takes a whole lot longer, and i dont get so many of those moments when you stumble onto a sound by accident, a realise it totally kicks ass, and could carry the whole track.

And host automation... yeah that can solve a lot of problems, but it also means that the sound of that patch is now tied to the song it's being automated in. If you load that patch into another song, you might not realise why you liked the sound, because you cant remember the automations that created all the wild funkiness. Also, i use FL, and it's automation just doesn't sound accurate enough for me to trust it with fast sweeps. I also noticed problems in Sonar with fast sweeps.
I guess that's why the 3 synths i mentioned in this thread are all heavy on the modulation options. I just prefer it that way.

[mcnoone]

@AL321
Just a reminder that you could try using 1 to 4 other Lfo's in user mode for certain work that the mseg's do. The 2 ModMappers also have similar to mseg functions, so all is not lost in that regard.
Of course morphing sounds is very possible with automation of the XY pads, once you set them up.
Just don't think there is no other way to achieve what your wanting to do.
Trying these other modules might just surprise you with something new that you didn't think possible before.
Just a suggestion, and I can see that your just discussing, and not ranting about it, so hope this helps a little.

[AL321]

@AL321
Just a reminder that you could try using 1 to 4 other Lfo's in user mode for certain work that the mseg's do. The 2 ModMappers also have similar to mseg functions, so all is not lost in that regard.
Of course morphing sounds is very possible with automation of the XY pads, once you set them up.
Just don't think there is no other way to achieve what your wanting to do.
Trying these other modules might just surprise you with something new that you didn't think possible before.
Just a suggestion, and I can see that your just discussing, and not ranting about it, so hope this helps a little.

Thanks, i'll have another look at the lfo user mode. Maybe they can be used for some of the rougher assignments that dont need such fine tuning. You said something in an earlier post about mixing user lfos with a modmap. That's something i need to look at too. All i've ever done so far with mod maps, is use them to limit MSEG patterns to specific keyboard notes. I've still got to figure out what those other modmap modes do.
Thanks for the suggestion.

[auricle]

I think Zebra takes the 'Buchla' philosophy of having a small number of modules but each module has a whole wealth of features - compared to the Moog philosophy of having a large number of single-purpose modules.

I think it would be great if Urs could add more feature packed modules that add another dimension to patches.

[pdxindy]

I think Zebra takes the 'Buchla' philosophy of having a small number of modules but each module has a whole wealth of features - compared to the Moog philosophy of having a large number of single-purpose modules.

I think it would be great if Urs could add more feature packed modules that add another dimension to patches.

One future module that could be interesting would be a vocal module... dedicated to vocal sounds ... the one thing I miss from my Oasys PCI cards is the glottal pulse model and I have found nothing in software that emulates it...