Zebra goes CZ

[Sendy]

Finally, a synth that lets you actually *experiment* with PD techniques instead of simply 'using' them as implimented by Casio in the days of yore

This, along with the wrap/foldback thing, is a really exciting update for Zebra 2! I just can't begin to imagine what's possible combining all this stuff...

This may sound like a silly question to someone with your knowledge, but do the osc fx give us anything that we can't already do with Zebra's wave morphing? I mean, i thought the fx were just a quicker way of morphing the wave shape, but is there actually more going on than that?
Don't get me wrong, i really like the osc fx, especially the liquidy sound that scatter gives square wave basses, and wouldn't want to try and replicate that with morphing, but when you say we now have phase distortion, does that mean i'm underestimating the osc fx, and they are doing more than wave morphing?

I got to be honest though, as much as i like Zebra, i'm a bit disappointed if the update amounts to nothing more than 2 osc fx.
Especially after all the talk about osc wave node snap, and module preset saving.

A lot of the Osc FX, to my knowledge, do things that are impossible with wavetable morphing, or at the very least, would take a ridiculous amount of time to set up, and may require more control points etc than synths could have.

I tend to think of Osc FX as synthesizer functions, like filters, waveshaper/distortions and FM. You could make an FM sweep by creating a wavetable of it by hand, but in reality we all just reach for the FM knob (or curse the synth for not having one!).

The other thing to bear in mind is that they are layers of complexity. Having the FX set up a certain way, and then morphing the waveshape, allows allsorts of madness to happen. I guess that's why it's 5:18 in the morning and I've just thought about going to bed.

[Urs]

Oh

The OscFX certainly do things that can't possibly be achieved by just editing waveforms. I'd rather think of them as additional filters or even as additional synthesis techniques - and of course as pdxindy points out, they offer modulation on top of wavefrom morphing/blending

Regarding the feature set, I'm always working on that as well, but I don't add things to releases unless they're somewhat ready to roll. As mentioned somewhere else, it's been a shitty year, I havn't nearly got the things done I wanted to. But we're getting there, maybe next year (and the future plans for Zebra are really, really exciting IMHO)

Urs

[pdxindy]

I don't really know how it all works so cannot answer your question... but in practice the oscFX give more than morphing wavesets cause I would not know how to do that stuff even if it were possible nor would I want to spend the time on it. But on top of that they give more cause you have 2 oscFX which used together certainly cannot be matched just by wave morphing...

and then you can modulate oscFX while you modulate the waveform as well!!

Yeah, i know what you're saying. They just make it a lot easier to get a sound. The fx remind me a lot of the way i work in Surge. I like to load 16 different waves into one sample, and use Surge's shape slider to morph between them. A lot of the sounds i get from that, sound similar to Zebra's osc fx. For sure i wouldn't have the patience to find these sounds just by experimenting with simple wave morphing.

I think that while it is theoretically possible that you would be able to mimic say a 24db filter by loading and morphing waves, the complex non-linearities of a filter would be in practice impossible to duplicate... same thing with the oscFX

Btw, did you try the PhaseDist patches Urs posted? I think they sound different and add something new.

Another example of the new Wrap oscFX... I really like Wrap! The sweep is just Wrap modulated, not a filter

http://draigathar.org/sounds/rapt2.wav

[AL321]

A lot of the Osc FX, to my knowledge, do things that are impossible with wavetable morphing, or at the very least, would take a ridiculous amount of time to set up, and may require more control points etc than synths could have.

Yeah i guessed that would be the case. I wouldn't even know where to start, trying to mimic those fx.


@ Urs, yeah i know you had a tough year. I was sorry to hear about that, and hope things are getting easier now.
I wasn't really complaining or trying to put pressure on you, i was just a bit surprised because i thought the next update would be a big one. But no worries. It's still my most used synth at the moment, so i got no complaints.

@ pdxindy, no i haven't tried any patches yet. I don't like beta software on my main comp, so i just downloaded the Zebra beta on my laptop, and played a few notes through Savihost.
Through my laptop, the phase distortion just seemed to fade in and out, but i only gave it about 5 seconds to impress me, lol. The wrap fx just sounded like another version of osc sync or something, but your demo sounds nice. Sounds a bit like a formant filter. Should be fun finding uses for that. No doubt it can do a lot more, if you give it the right waveforms, and looking at Sendy's drawings, i think i'm gonna find a lot of uses for that.
Thanks for taking the time to post that demo.

[Cyforce]

Phase Distortion in Zebra? REALLY NICE

[lazerkind]

Wrap is awesome! you can make sonds that are Fm-ish but easier to control.
I always liked the sound of wave-multipliers/timbre modules in modular systems so this is so cool to have in software.

I never used any CZ synths but doing Phase dist and then sending that into a FMO is

Now I only dream of Wrap as a option for the shaper module in zebrify...

Awesome update Urs!
Thanks,
//L

[pdxindy]

The wrap fx just sounded like another version of osc sync or something, but your demo sounds nice. Sounds a bit like a formant filter. Should be fun finding uses for that. No doubt it can do a lot more, if you give it the right waveforms, and looking at Sendy's drawings, i think i'm gonna find a lot of uses for that.
Thanks for taking the time to post that demo.

I think the formant-ish sound is coming from modulating through a waveset while also modulating the Wrap OscFX (actually 2 of them modulating opposite to each other). I have not used it much yet, but I think Wrap will end up one of my more used oscFX!

And I understand about putting beta software on your main machine... U-he stuff is about the only stuff I will because Urs betas are usually more solid than most shipping plugs. Even the Bazille alpha is ridiculously solid.

[pdxindy]

Wrap is awesome! you can make sonds that are Fm-ish but easier to control.
I always liked the sound of wave-multipliers/timbre modules in modular systems so this is so cool to have in software.

I never used any CZ synths but doing Phase dist and then sending that into a FMO is

Now I only dream of Wrap as a option for the shaper module in zebrify...

Awesome update Urs!
Thanks,
//L

Post some audio of what you are doing with Wrap! Love to listen to what people do!

[Sendy]

Through my laptop, the phase distortion just seemed to fade in and out, but i only gave it about 5 seconds to impress me, lol. The wrap fx just sounded like another version of osc sync or something, but your demo sounds nice. Sounds a bit like a formant filter. Should be fun finding uses for that. No doubt it can do a lot more, if you give it the right waveforms, and looking at Sendy's drawings, i think i'm gonna find a lot of uses for that.
Thanks for taking the time to post that demo.

One thing to bear in mind is that the Wrap knob, and lots of other knobs on Zebra, sweep through a HUGE range of values when you turn them. This is a godsend to someone like me because I'm into experimental sounds, and it's frustrating to have a parameter run out of 'travel' with you wondering what's lurking 'beyond the forbidden zone', lol. But it also means you need to shift-drag the parameter to really hear little pockets of sound variations that you're whizzing past too fast to hear just by turning the knob.

In fact, I don't even know if shift-dragging knobs is documented anywhere or if I just discovered it, but it drags parameters very finely and is kinda like putting a microscope to Zebra.

Anyhow, as an example, try restricting the wrap parameter so it never leaves the first 'wrap' of the waveform (i.e. use the first 10th of the parameter range) and you will get some really nice PWM-type sounds on Triangle and Sawtooth waves which don't have the 'tearing' and pitch modulation of sync-type sounds and are IMO better than PWM - especially for bass.

[ This will probably be even more apparent when/if Urs makes a version of Wrap which wraps from 1 to -1 instead of 1 to 0 as this creates huge square-like discontinuities in the waveform which move in opposite directions ]

A lot of the Osc FX are also highly dependant on the wave shape you feed it, wrap in particular

By the way, a good waveshaper (I'm using MeldaProductions' free waveshaper which is really nice) is a cool way to experiment with this type of sound even more. For example, if you draw an output curve consitsing of 4 wavelengths of triangle, you will be able to do 'soft wrapping' to a waveform four times. Sawtooth gives the hard wrap sound (but sadly also won't wrap from negative to positive because there is no scope to cross zero) and the input level changes the amount of wrapping. Hours of fun (but sadly no support for polyphony as it's basically doing it via distortion of the audio)

[djsubject]

But we're getting there, maybe next year (and the future plans for Zebra are really, really exciting IMHO)

[cybertron]

Ill ask you kindly to stop making me want to purchase this product..

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I have to blame my gear addiction on someone...

[AL321]

One thing to bear in mind is that the Wrap knob, and lots of other knobs on Zebra, sweep through a HUGE range of values when you turn them. This is a godsend to someone like me because I'm into experimental sounds, and it's frustrating to have a parameter run out of 'travel' with you wondering what's lurking 'beyond the forbidden zone', lol. But it also means you need to shift-drag the parameter to really hear little pockets of sound variations that you're whizzing past too fast to hear just by turning the knob.

In fact, I don't even know if shift-dragging knobs is documented anywhere or if I just discovered it, but it drags parameters very finely and is kinda like putting a microscope to Zebra.

Anyhow, as an example, try restricting the wrap parameter so it never leaves the first 'wrap' of the waveform (i.e. use the first 10th of the parameter range) and you will get some really nice PWM-type sounds on Triangle and Sawtooth waves which don't have the 'tearing' and pitch modulation of sync-type sounds and are IMO better than PWM - especially for bass.

[ This will probably be even more apparent when/if Urs makes a version of Wrap which wraps from 1 to -1 instead of 1 to 0 as this creates huge square-like discontinuities in the waveform which move in opposite directions ]

A lot of the Osc FX are also highly dependant on the wave shape you feed it, wrap in particular

By the way, a good waveshaper (I'm using MeldaProductions' free waveshaper which is really nice) is a cool way to experiment with this type of sound even more. For example, if you draw an output curve consitsing of 4 wavelengths of triangle, you will be able to do 'soft wrapping' to a waveform four times. Sawtooth gives the hard wrap sound (but sadly also won't wrap from negative to positive because there is no scope to cross zero) and the input level changes the amount of wrapping. Hours of fun (but sadly no support for polyphony as it's basically doing it via distortion of the audio)

Yeah, ctrl/copy and shift/fine tune are kinda standard for windows apps, (unless you're Image Line, and think ctrl is fine tune, and shift is better suited to copying!), so i got the fine tune pretty early on. But i don't really like deviating from nice round numbers, if it can be avoided, so i'll probably end up using the matrix or x/y as a fine tune modifier, and keep those rogue fractions as a misclick alert (i'll admit, i don't have many synths where i can afford to be that fussy).
I'll try assigning a whole x/y slider to a 10th of the wrap control, and see what i can get out of it. Though being an FL user, i might try slightly modulating it with the volume output of the drum track, or something.

I got the Melda bundle, and FL's waveshaper too. I'm actually pretty surprised there are so few shapers and compressors that let you draw your own curve like that. Maybe it's hard to do, or something, but i would love a drawable waveshaper module in Zebra/Zebrify.
So when you say the input level changes the amount of wrapping, does that mean that we can modulate an fx in slot 1 and have it affect the wrap fx in slot 2? That makes me feel a bit noobish. I didn't realise fx 1 can have an effect on fx 2! I thought they were added together, then applied to the osc.

Interesting stuff. I'm looking forward to getting this update now, thanks.

[Sendy]

@AL321: No I'm talking entirely about MeldaProductions' waveshaper in the last paragraph.

[Krakatau]

Ill ask you kindly to stop making me want to purchase this product..

I have to blame my gear addiction on someone...

Don't worry there is a thread coming right out of the guts of u-he factory , especially dedicated on that purpose :

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 89&start=0

[pdxindy]

In keeping with my love of plucked strings... my first try with the new PhaseDist OscFX resulted in this sound:

http://draigathar.org/sounds/evoltring.wav