KVR Audio

olikana · Post by **olikana** » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:32 pm

vanmorrison wrote:Sytrus can be used... as fl says it's subtractive but additive (hybrid)... ? And it's been said we can use only square/saw/sine

it also has FM operator style synthesis(digital FM).
beyond borderline imo.

olikana · Post by **olikana** » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:56 pm

RULES (should have been in the OP)
-Synth must be a subtractive/virtual analog softsynth
-Synth must generate its own oscillator sound (sample or wavetable based synths are not allowed)
-Synth's oscillators limited to the classic analog waveforms: saw (ramp), square, triangle, sine and noise

FAQS
-the synth includes FM can i use it?
yes if it's analog style FM (cross modulation, Xmod etc), not if in operator style (like in FM synths like FM7, Operator etc)
analog FM was present in many classic analog synths like the Pro-One, the MonoPoly and the PolyVoks, the Jxs and many software VAs have this feature...and it might come in handy when making your Bell sound
-the synth allows to morph between the clasic waveforms, or in general to morph between preset can i use it ?
yes
-modulars?
yes, if they meet the rules .
-hybrids?Va+wavetables/samples
not this time (maybe in a future anyosc)

the forbidden words in this comp are:
samples, wavetables, operators, additive.

if u see these words in the synth description the synth is out.

i hope this covers everything , if any more questions keep them coming but can't read them till tomorrow.

lockon stratos · Post by **lockon stratos** » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:08 pm

Perenial freeware favorite TAL Elec7ro has an FM knob, can we use that?

olikana · Post by **olikana** » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:17 pm

lockon stratos wrote:Perenial freeware favorite TAL Elec7ro has an FM knob, can we use that?

yes, that's a typical example of "analog FM" .cross modulation btewteen the 2 oscillators. and that's the kind of FM u find in analogs and virtual analogs.

K-Bee · Post by **K-Bee** » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:22 pm

Can I use my Kurzweil??

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:30 pm

olikana wrote:FAQS
-the synth includes FM can i use it?
yes if it's analog style FM (cross modulation, Xmod etc), not if in operator style (like in FM synths like FM7, Operator etc)
analog FM was present in many classic analog synths like the Pro-One, the MonoPoly and the PolyVoks, the Jxs and many software VAs have this feature...and it might come in handy when making your Bell sound

Note that what we think of as classic "operator FM" is really PM, phase modulation. However modulating the phase also modulates frequency, so it's a form of FM as well. The "operator" part is pretty much just a synonym for "oscillator", except they were typically oscillators with dedicated envelopes.

The Roland JX synths actually used AM (aka ring modulation) in their oscillator Cross Mod control. This was the "metal" setting (the other 2 settings were Off and Sync, at least on the JX-3P, the first of the JX series).

This feature was used in many of the built in bell-like presets, which the JX-3P and other synths in the series were famous for. If you're looking to make bell tones, AM between the oscillators tuned to some interval other than perfect octaves will be the way to go. For synths that offer audio-rate cross-mod to the filter, you can also use the filter like an amplifier to achieve AM-like effects.

Of course, the JX-3P and it's siblings weren't true analogs, they had digitally controlled oscillators (different than digital wavetable oscillators, with DCO's the wave shaping was achieved with the usual analog methods, only the timing/tuning was controlled by computer). However that "Metal" (AM) technique doesn't require DCOs to achieve the effect, so I think it's more than fair to use here.

True FM (as used for vibrato) produces disharmonious tones that go out of tune, it's actually not much use at audio-rates. Phase Mod would be a better approach for making musical tones, however few VA synths offer it, and there's technically no difference between PM and what we consider "operator FM". But I think you'll find AM/ring mod/filter X-mod is actually the secret to making killer bells, not FM/PM. And AM can be achieved on many classic analogs, their virtual emulations, and many other VA softsynths. Again, if it's not offered between the oscillators, then you can heavily modulate the filter from one of the oscillators and you'll get much the same effect.

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:43 pm

May we assume that KarmaFX or Moog Modular V would be acceptable?

Lunatic_Machinist · Post by **Lunatic_Machinist** » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:56 pm

can I use a slightly modified reaktor ensemble (the original comes from the user library)? I've just replaced the oscillators with anti-aliased ones and done some minor tweaks, but the ensemble is va to the core? I suppose this question goes for the whole lot of reaktor ensembles, as there is plenty of great ones to pick from. is reaktor ok?

olikana · Post by **olikana** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:09 am

@Admiral yes also AM and RingMod are absolutely fine. they are featured in countless analog and virtual analog designs. and even audiorate or frequency modulation at filter level fine.

@Tucson modulars are fine if they meet the rules. Moog Modular yes...karmafx includes sampler modules, additive oscillators and so on....so it's out.

@k-bee : must be a softsynth ...sadly

@Lunatic_Machinist : yes it's ok i guess . but if u make the ensemble public that would be appreciated.

@all
the forbidden words in this comp are:
samples, wavetables, operators, additive.

if u see these words in the synth description the synth is out for this one.

V'ger · Post by **V'ger** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:39 am

RULES UPDATE:

Due to all the confusion with the synth type, we've decided to scrap the rule limiting the choice to VA's.

So you are now allowed to use any one synth you wish as long as it does not include samples or wavetables. That remains the only limitation in choosing the softsynth.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:45 am

V'ger wrote:RULES UPDATE:

Due to all the confusion with the synth type, we've decided to scrap the rule limiting the choice to VA's.

So you are now allowed to use any one synth you wish as long as it does not include samples or wavetables. That remains the only limitation in choosing the softsynth.

V'ger · Post by **V'ger** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:06 pm

How's it going with this? I take the lack of questions regarding the synth spec to be sorted with the new rules.

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:04 am

V'ger wrote:How's it going with this? I take the lack of questions regarding the synth spec to be sorted with the new rules.

I got as far as getting a couple of decent bell sounds. Now I just need an idea.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:09 am

james0tucson wrote:
V'ger wrote:How's it going with this? I take the lack of questions regarding the synth spec to be sorted with the new rules.

I got as far as getting a couple of decent bell sounds. Now I just need an idea.

Me too. Here's a few of the bell and bell-like patches I've made for Poly-Ana.

http://www.admiralquality.com/products/ ... ells01.zip

They're in a Poly-Ana bank (.pab) file. But note that there's only 17 programs in this bank, so when you load it, you'll only see new programs up to #16.

Probably some more to come.

dwsel · Post by **dwsel** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:25 pm

V'ger wrote:How's it going with this? I take the lack of questions regarding the synth spec to be sorted with the new rules.

I'm not very into 'Any Synth OSC' - I prefer regular OSC's over it. That's why there's lack or very little activity from my side. I'm not sure if I finish song on time.

james0tucson wrote:I got as far as getting a couple of decent bell sounds. Now I just need an idea.

Same as me.

I've decided to use SmallQoo http://www.kvraudio.com/db/smallqoo_by_g200kg (1 osc, single slow LFO, ADSR, filter, simple effects). So far I've got 'medium sized bell sound', 'vibrato flute' and... 'gated saw with synced delay'

which I guess is not very useful for Christmas themed song unless song is modern dance titled 'Turn me on babah like you turn on Christmas tree lights'

One-Synth-Challenge 23: Any Synth - Submissions