Ferric TDS vs Nebula StuderA800 (R2R) vs UAD

[Barendse]

Bduffy....don't tell you missed his (CDSoundmaster) Pultec release...;-)

Back on topic:

The Studers aren't in the free demo package (if they were nobody would buy R2R). You can push R2R by raising the input and drive slider and add some TB+ tape saturation programs. Normally this sounds to my ears (!) completely different than plugs like Ferric or Ferox.

[bduffy]

Bduffy....don't tell you missed his (CDSoundmaster) Pultec release...

I miss all Nebula releases. I can never get the damn thing working properly, let alone investing in third-party libraries.

Back on topic:

The Studers aren't in the free demo package (if they were nobody would buy R2R). You can push R2R by raising the input and drive slider and add some TB+ tape saturation programs. Normally this sounds to my ears (!) completely different than plugs like Ferric or Ferox.

Yes, I noticed the Studer is not in the free, just wanted to get an idea of what his tape lib sounds like.

[futurefields]

Anybody else think its strange that UAD would put out an expensive tape sim that craps out so easily when driven hard? After all, one of the things ppl love about analog tape is being able to hit it hard and the musical, never farty or harsh sound this gives. I think the URS Saturation tape algorithm is great in this sense, because it allows you to drive ur channel to a level that would be well beyond 0dbfs without the sound becoming unpleasant. It also allows you to use less compression because it gently compresses and soft clips the signal. From what I've read about the UAD so far, it isn't capturing any of the dynaamics treatment that analog tape provides.

[audiovet]

DELETED

[bduffy]

Anybody else think its strange that UAD would put out an expensive tape sim that craps out so easily when driven hard? After all, one of the things ppl love about analog tape is being able to hit it hard and the musical, never farty or harsh sound this gives. I think the URS Saturation tape algorithm is great in this sense, because it allows you to drive ur channel to a level that would be well beyond 0dbfs without the sound becoming unpleasant. It also allows you to use less compression because it gently compresses and soft clips the signal. From what I've read about the UAD so far, it isn't capturing any of the dynaamics treatment that analog tape provides.

Yeah, I was a little surprised by the "farty", but then again, you read up on this and listen to the video, and I think they're trying to go for the "sweet spot" effect more than something you can push hard. My first reaction was to not expect "Vintage Wamrmer" type voodoo off the bat, but I am not a Tape specialist, by any means.

[Tony Ostinato]

at this moment in time i like A better, but tomorrow i might like B.

i've been away from tape a loooong time tho. i might find myself getting to A while fixing a drum attack in the first bars of B that bothers me but someone else might love.

free software is often quite amazing.

[robenestobenz]

I'm a little surprised the Nebula library can be driven harder, but I don't have any experience with the CDSoundmaster stuff. I'm attempting to try out his free R2R demo programs right now actually, but of course Nebula3 is acting up once again and I can't load any programs.

Hmm, have you had any major hardware swaps, or changed/reinstalled your OS? When I've been unable to load programs, it's always been that my keyfile has become out of date because of system changes. You can get a new one sent to you from the customer section on the Acustica Audio site.

Re. this test, I reckon A is Nebula and B is FerricTDS, although I've never heard the R2R tape programs.

[bduffy]

I'm a little surprised the Nebula library can be driven harder, but I don't have any experience with the CDSoundmaster stuff. I'm attempting to try out his free R2R demo programs right now actually, but of course Nebula3 is acting up once again and I can't load any programs.

Hmm, have you had any major hardware swaps, or changed/reinstalled your OS? When I've been unable to load programs, it's always been that my keyfile has become out of date because of system changes. You can get a new one sent to you from the customer section on the Acustica Audio site.

Re. this test, I reckon A is Nebula and B is FerricTDS, although I've never heard the R2R tape programs.

I don't recall doing any hardware swaps, etc. Just par for the course in my experience, but I don't want to sidetrack with Nebula bugs.

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

I'm a little surprised the Nebula library can be driven harder, but I don't have any experience with the CDSoundmaster stuff. I'm attempting to try out his free R2R demo programs right now actually, but of course Nebula3 is acting up once again and I can't load any programs.

Hmm, have you had any major hardware swaps, or changed/reinstalled your OS? When I've been unable to load programs, it's always been that my keyfile has become out of date because of system changes. You can get a new one sent to you from the customer section on the Acustica Audio site.

Re. this test, I reckon A is Nebula and B is FerricTDS, although I've never heard the R2R tape programs.

I don't recall doing any hardware swaps, etc. Just par for the course in my experience, but I don't want to sidetrack with Nebula bugs.

around 20 users reported this issue. I guess their key was not installed or not working. If you need it, just download latest setup version. It installs nebula3 AU too.

[Kingston]

Anybody else think its strange that UAD would put out an expensive tape sim that craps out so easily when driven hard? After all, one of the things ppl love about analog tape is being able to hit it hard and the musical, never farty or harsh sound this gives.

This is not c-cassette! What most people don't seem to realise is that fast speed wide format tape clips nasty. You can drive them hard up to a point, and then it clips and wrecks. The wider your tape, the faster your speed, the worse it clips. In fact much closer to digital clip than that mushy lofi c-cassette in your walkman that you recorded much too loud. If you want the mush, stay c-cassette, or at least set your speed to 7.5ips and compensate for the lofi frequency response accordingly.

From all the (crap) demos I've heard this far, the UAD Studer is sounding very close to the real thing. That nasty clip, I can't hear it in a single one of those nebula examples every one is liking so much. And I don't blame them, Nebula lacks that nasty but realistic fast speed wide format tape clipping.

And to answer your initial inquiry,

no, it is not strange that UAD would put out an expensive tape sim that craps out so easily when driven hard, especially when the source they are emulating behaves exactly like that, too.

[Kingston]

I just read the rest of the thread and the same concepts keep coming up.

To sum it up:

None of you actually want a high end multitrack tape sound. You want a general mushinator with invisible saturation curve. Plenty of those around already, even digital. Or perhaps you want a really slow and thin tape like a c-cassette.

The last generation wide multitrack tape machines had a different purpose: to capture as accurately as possible a sound in the studio, with as wide headroom and as little noise as possible. Clipping was an artifact you avoided.

Remember, this is some 30 years of multitrack development - from late fifties to early nineties - and things had progressed from plain grime to very transparent. Back in the sixties you traded mush for noise, but with late generation machines and tape formulas it was no longer necessary, or even a good idea. You can select a tape formula to affect this somewhat, but it can never turn into the round saturation you would hear on sixties motown tracks.

This whole thread started with a wrong note, trying to make a late generation high end multitrack behave like the general mushinators you all are used to.

Just saying, stick with the vintage warmers you are used to.

[alteregoxxx]

I just read the rest of the thread and the same concepts keep coming up.

To sum it up:

None of you actually want a high end multitrack tape sound. You want a general mushinator with invisible saturation curve. Plenty of those around already, even digital. Or perhaps you want a really slow and thin tape like a c-cassette.

The last generation wide multitrack tape machines had a different purpose: to capture as accurately as possible a sound in the studio, with as wide headroom and as little noise as possible. Clipping was an artifact you avoided.

Remember, this is some 30 years of multitrack development - from late fifties to early nineties - and things had progressed from plain grime to very transparent. Back in the sixties you traded mush for noise, but with late generation machines and tape formulas it was no longer necessary, or even a good idea. You can select a tape formula to affect this somewhat, but it can never turn into the round saturation you would hear on sixties motown tracks.

This whole thread started with a wrong note, trying to make a late generation high end multitrack behave like the general mushinators you all are used to.

Just saying, stick with the vintage warmers you are used to.

...so in your own opinion Nebula studer sounds like a "mushinator" too...because it's totally different from the uad...one of the to has to be wrong...no?

[Kingston]

I want only to show that FerricTDS is capable to manage hot signals, and to sound virtually indistinguishable,or at least as good, as Nebula Studer itslef...
...we can't say the same for Uad Studer..right?..maybe wrong settings on uad?...who knows...

No, your settings on the UAD plugin are probably just fine. It's just not tape sound you're looking for. You want invisi-glue that you can just keep pushing with no headroom limits. You want whatever it is that the Nebula sampling set does, something other than a Studer A800.

[alteregoxxx]

I want only to show that FerricTDS is capable to manage hot signals, and to sound virtually indistinguishable,or at least as good, as Nebula Studer itslef...
...we can't say the same for Uad Studer..right?..maybe wrong settings on uad?...who knows...

No, your settings on the UAD plugin are probably just fine. It's just not tape sound you're looking for. You want invisi-glue that you can just keep pushing with no headroom limits. You want whatever it is that the Nebula sampling set does, something other than a Studer A800.

...ok...i know you are a competent guy, then i want to trust you, even because i don't have any experience with a real studer, but, BUT...

if you say UAD reacts like the real thing then you have said automatically that Nebula doesn't do...because the two react extremely different...right? ..and this is strange especially beacuse Nebula is a "sample it thing"...so, or this library was sampled in a wrong way(and this would be really really really really strange because all nebula's users adore this library, even the Nebula's creators...) or the Volterra Kernel principle doesn't work in sampling a Studer, so we can say it will work on nothing...right?)

...on the other hand Ferox (from Jeroen Breebart) reacts more like you say, (and Jeroen isn't a DSP newbie at all) but is totally different from Ferric and Nebula...

...so, seen that you've quite a lot of experience on a real tape machine...who is right? UAD and JeroenBreebart or Bootsy and Nebula?

[kmonkey]

Actually Kingston is right. I wonder why majority is under impression that real tape does not "fart" when driven hard? Quite puzzling...

Beside that CDsoundmaster Tape programs are meant to be used in precise gain staging at least that is my impression by reading manual. So to speak you can't expect same result as on UAD at least not in the sense of versatility (and i am sure Kingston didn't know that).

edit: less witch hunt and more work. Buy both and you are set. UAD and Nebula. You are basically getting best possible tape emulations at this point of time.