Izotope buys BT's Sonik Architects (Stutter Edit now Released!)

[jedilaw]

So there's no MIDI learn allowing you to assign different control parameters to your MIDI controller? Not very real-time friendly, if that's the case.

Has anyone tried using envelope clips in Ableton Live to control parameters?

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

What were they thinking? It's essential.

are you serious ?? it's only $249 dollars...you guys want the world

[lightsfadelow]

I think some people are confused. You can't automate individual parameters but you control the effect with MIDI. So you can do a lot already. Just not fine tuning.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I think some people are confused. You can't automate individual parameters but you control the effect with MIDI. So you can do a lot already. Just not fine tuning.

We're not really confused though. You can have midi assignments on gesture length (or buffer override or whatever) and master filter which are by default mapped to pitch wheel and mod wheel. That doesn't help using in Kore or any number of host mappings though which are far more useful. So you can't use it for example on the APC40 with the selected device in ableton or in Maschine 1.6 you won't be able to map these to macros, and you can't use Kore with it properly etc. Another example - In Kore I like to make an instrument that has an instrument plug-in over part of the keyrange and then a midi effect like effectrix over the top part of a keyrange, so you can play the instrument and trigger effects with the same keyboard. If I did this with stutter edit I can't assign the controls in kore, I have to use the pitch wheel and mod wheel which would mean I'd have to disable those to the instrument. Lame.

[ariston]

Are they insane? How can you record what you play in realtime without host automation? Do they expect everyone to record straight to audio? This would also make it impossible to use in Kore.

Erm... maybe I'm being deliberately dense here, but when "recording", you don't record the audio, you "record" the midi keys.

I wonder how many of those who are griping about the lack of automation actually took the time to work with the demo. I used it all over a gig yesterday, and it was great. Used a dedicated Akai MPK Mini to trigger the effects and tweak the buffer and filter. Worked like a charm, and there was no stutter fatigue involved.

[aMUSEd]

Are they insane? How can you record what you play in realtime without host automation? Do they expect everyone to record straight to audio? This would also make it impossible to use in Kore.

Erm... maybe I'm being deliberately dense here, but when "recording", you don't record the audio, you "record" the midi keys.

Nope - I would usually want to record the slider movements (usually done using Kore but that won't work either so it would have to be using a mouse) while I play an instrument through the effect using my midi keys.

[ariston]

Nope - I would usually want to record the slider movements (usually done using Kore but that won't work either so it would have to be using a mouse) while I play an instrument through the effect using my midi keys.

I do get what you're saying - yet you were inferring that it's not possible to "record" what you're playing without host automation. This is just not true - I simply use a second keyboard for triggering the effects and record the midi output from that, which for all practical purposes boils down to "recording the automation".
While I can see (and like) the advantages of supporting automation in general, I just question the fact whether Stutter Edit in particular NEEDS it. My answer is: no, definitely not. It spices up tracks with great one-shots, and it accomplishes this particularly well. And, like I said, I really wonder if anyone would actually want to submit their listeners to a minute of manually-tweaked stutter torture. These effects need to be administered in small doses, otherwise they turn to cheese instantly - IMO. Your personal CO2-balance may vary.

I have no idea why I'm championing this plugin so much (I'm not on the payroll - wish I was) - maybe it's the fact that some people seem intent on putting it down for what it's not, instead of taking it for what it is: an instant put-a-smile-on-your-face funbox with a great sound and gobs of creative possibilities.

[Sampleconstruct]

Tripletmania programmed on stutter edit....

[Echoes in the Attic]

Nope - I would usually want to record the slider movements (usually done using Kore but that won't work either so it would have to be using a mouse) while I play an instrument through the effect using my midi keys.

I do get what you're saying - yet you were inferring that it's not possible to "record" what you're playing without host automation. This is just not true - I simply use a second keyboard for triggering the effects and record the midi output from that, which for all practical purposes boils down to "recording the automation".

It's completely true what amused and I are saying, for all parameters except gesture length and master filter (which can be midi assigned). Pressing a button does not boil down to "recording automation" at all, it really boils down to recording midi notes which are triggers for complete actions. Tell me how you would map delay length to a kore control or any hardware at all? Or automate it? or a lo-fi parameter or anything else. I get what you're saying that it's useful as is, but I like to do as much manually as possible, it makes me feel like I'm really playing an instrument and recording movements using knobs etc. rather than simply pressing a button and have everything done for me.

[Slinky Productions]

Nope - I would usually want to record the slider movements (usually done using Kore but that won't work either so it would have to be using a mouse) while I play an instrument through the effect using my midi keys.

I do get what you're saying - yet you were inferring that it's not possible to "record" what you're playing without host automation. This is just not true - I simply use a second keyboard for triggering the effects and record the midi output from that, which for all practical purposes boils down to "recording the automation".

It's completely true what amused and I are saying, for all parameters except gesture length and master filter (which can be midi assigned). Pressing a button does not boil down to "recording automation" at all, it really boils down to recording midi notes which are triggers for complete actions. Tell me how you would map delay length to a kore control or any hardware at all? Or automate it? or a lo-fi parameter or anything else. I get what you're saying that it's useful as is, but I like to do as much manually as possible, it makes me feel like I'm really playing an instrument and recording movements using knobs etc. rather than simply pressing a button and have everything done for me.

+1

I never understand why people will tirelessly argue against other users who ask for an improvement. Why argue against something that makes the software better ?

[Grain Bastard]

I never understand why people will tirelessly argue against other users who ask for an improvement. Why argue against something that makes the software better ?

I don't think its the case all the time as I'm assuming people are suggesting that there isn't a need for the automation, or work-arounds etc. I'm not sure I would feel the need for host automation as you can preset your effects to various keys and trigger that way for the majority of the time (or so it seems to me, anyway) but your right, another way won't harm anything hopefully, so yeah, why not????

Also people may thing that adding new or missing features might delay a 'bug-fix release' which they might be waiting for and might argue such a case but I doubt people would go so far as suggesting ideas are bad just to be spiteful??? Dunno, maybe I'm just hoping that humanity isn't quite dead yet......

Errr, anyway having made some comments on this plug earlier in the thread 'before' I tried it, I would like to back track a little as having now tried the demo version, I have to say that this is very, very good imo. Still way too expensive but imo, it does back up the high price with a high quality, fun product. I'm pissed cos I'll not have the cash for it for a while and then at $250 I will probably talk myself out of it. Who knows but I do like it.

I still have issues with the claim of him (BT) inventing the 'stutter edit' as a production technique but errr, good job BT & Izotope and lets hope that the creative people of the world get to use it and it it stays off the radar of lazy, wealthy producers who will most likely kill us with it on some Gaga or Britney shitwad.......

PS Talking of Britney, her latest track goes 'very' Dubstep a couple of minutes in.....WTF!!!!!! c**ts like that need not to know of SE's existence.

Peace.

[ariston]

... but I like to do as much manually as possible, it makes me feel like I'm really playing an instrument and recording movements using knobs etc. rather than simply pressing a button and have everything done for me.

...everything "done for you" which you've prepared beforehand by programming and using the effect to your liking. It's that thing with iron in it, right?

The important phrase in my post was "for all practical porpoises".


Yes, you can record your inputs, and you're not forced to go straight to audio, which is why amused's statement is not "completely true". It's misleading.

@slinky dude: I don't think automation would make this product "better", in the same way that I think a big wooden casing, some hammers, additional strings and 88 keys wouldn't make a guitar "better". I don't think it needs it, because it's not that type of effect. There are enough alternatives for that. Buy those if that's what you want. I felt that SE offers something that those others don't, which is why I bought it. Your body mass index may vary.

Ahh, well, that's enough of that. I for one hope that Izotope will devote their resources to additional effects modules rather than host automation.

[Echoes in the Attic]

... but I like to do as much manually as possible, it makes me feel like I'm really playing an instrument and recording movements using knobs etc. rather than simply pressing a button and have everything done for me.

...everything "done for you" which you've prepared beforehand by programming and using the effect to your liking. It's that thing with iron in it, right?

You are missing the point. If you program a keyboard passage meticulously in a midi clip and trigger it with a button, are playing keyboard? No. I'm talking about actually adjusting parameters on the fly. You are talking about programming parameter changes beforehand and triggering them. Different things.
If you like to work that way that's cool, stutter edit isn't missing anything you want. But how you can claim that it's no different and automation/hardware mapping are unneeded because you can press a key, that's beyond me.

Yes, you can record your inputs, and you're not forced to go straight to audio, which is why amused's statement is not "completely true". It's misleading.

You're right that you're not forced to go directly to audio but that's not the important part of the point. The important thing is that you can not automate parameters besides the main two and you can not map them to hardware controls in any way and there is NO workaround for that. This is not a special feature, this should be standard functionality of any plug-in.

[Slinky Productions]

The important thing is that you can not automate parameters besides the main two and you can not map them to hardware controls in any way and there is NO workaround for that. This is not a special feature, this should be standard functionality of any plug-in.

absolutely, 100%

[ariston]

You're right that you're not forced to go directly to audio but that's not the important part of the point. The important thing is that you can not automate parameters besides the main two and you can not map them to hardware controls in any way and there is NO workaround for that. This is not a special feature, this should be standard functionality of any plug-in.

My last post on this (I promise ). I'll repeat myself: Your point is that the lack of automation is a big minus for any plugin. My point is that this plugin in particular does not need it or even suffer from the lack of it because of what it is and does. I can get it to do what I want by programming it and then triggering my own designs. Why would I want to fiddle with a knob while a 1/2-bar effect is running? I wouldn't even have time for that, and even if I would, it would sound really cheesy. I've put it to the test of at least 10 hours of tweaking and playing, and, like I mentioned, have used it during a gig this week, and adjusting the buffer position and master filter via controller is way more than enough. I used a setup where I had 8 basic effects with variations spread out over 4 octaves - there are so many possibilities in there, your audience would grow bored of these more quickly than you'd be able to explore all of them. Hence the "for all practical purposes" remark. Yes, there's a difference between programming and playing, but in this case, that difference is moot.
There are other effects out there that can do what you apparently want SE to do. It's different, and I'm not only glad for that, but feel that it's kind of silly and unprofitable to lambaste it for something it's not. And by the way, it's rock-solid, sounds great, the workflow is fun and easy, and the preset browser pure joy. So easy to set up a bank. I'm saying this so that the things that make SE great won't get left out of the picture here.
And, somehow, I still can't shake the feeling that none of you have actually given the demo a fair shot.

Now, let's all fire up whatever floats our personal boat and make some music.