Sonimus Satson (Console emulation) ready to buy now :)

[A.M. Gold]

I'm not going to defend Compyfox because I haven't followed all this rigamarole between him and this developer before, but this isn't even an official thread, and it's not like we are on the developer's own forum nagging him. Several people have said we need a demo. No, a demo is not a "right", but then neither is it a right for a developer to expect to sell plug-ins based on faith alone and audio demos that may or may not match up with the experiences of every buyer.

I know an earlier thread got locked but this one hasn't been particularly nasty as far as I've seen and it certainly hasn't been derailed. Compyfox finds some of the developer's behavior to appear suspicious and I can understand that perspective. I don't find him suspicious, just a bit frustrating, but he has just stated going commercial so I guess he will have to wait and see if this sort of approach works for him in the long run or not. He may not even care, for all I know.

As far as no CP being a reason to not have a demo, I suppose that's logical, up to the point (in the near future, most likely) when someone buys his plug and adds it to torrent sites, just for the heck of it. I wouldn't rule that out at all. Someone has to buy every plug-in before they can crack it, and this would certainly be far less effort, since there is no cracking required.

[bduffy]

I'm not quite sure what the hubbub is here. Audio Damage doesn't do demos and it works for them, plus he got the price right, like they do.

I would personally strongly advise the dev to make a demo, but if he can't/wont' do it, he can't do it.

[lightsfadelow]

I'm all for being principled in how one spends his hard-earnend money. I have a principle too--I will not buy plugins that aren't x64 (or in the case of all 3 SKnote plugs as well as Satson, I bought them in advance because the developer promised x64 imminently, and all 4 of the plugs I bought were delivered as promised). But if a dev won't build an x64 plugin, I just move on and spend my money elsewhere.

In the case of SKnote and Sonimus we're talking one or a few guys in (really) small businesses. I'm willing to cut these guys way more slack than an outfit like IKMM. Especially since they are offering what believe to be compelling and perhaps unbeatable values. And they also produce plugins which are haslle free because they lack copy protection. This comes at one price: you're asked to have some faith. If you don't have that faith, that's cool. Don't buy it.

[A.M. Gold]

I'm not quite sure what the hubbub is here. Audio Damage doesn't do demos and it works for them, plus he got the price right, like they do.

I would personally strongly advise the dev to make a demo, but if he can't/wont' do it, he can't do it.

I mentioned AD, but AD has already established a solid reputation that there is a no-hassle money back guarantee. I've seen at least one other developer do the same. So far I've seen no mention of this policy being spelled out by the developer in question here.

[A.M. Gold]

This comes at one price: you're asked to have some faith. If you don't have that faith, that's cool. Don't buy it.

Yes, yes, I think it's clear that that is the crux of what's happening here. No need to state the obvious. I think it also isn't hard to grasp why some people think that's a bad policy. No one is singling out this developer, unless in the case of Compyfox he really has something against him.

I'd much rather deal with copy protection, at least in the case of having a serial number or key file, than buy things on faith. I've been buying plug-ins for many years, and I'm not always totally happy with a purchase even after I've demoed it. Buying anything on faith makes no sense whatsoever to me. I've had too many plug-ins turn out (after some extended use) to be somewhat to very disappointing over the years, and I've never been blown away by this developer's EQ, though I do think it's pretty good.

Also---there's one issue that I'm not sure has been mentioned, and that's compatibility and possible bugs showing up that are not experienced by most users. I bought a $200 suite from an excellent developer after demoing them for only a couple hours a few months ago. I really like them and thought they would complete my set of mixing tools nicely. Within 24 hours of buying them, I started getting huge Visual C runtime errors resulting in host crashes whenever I would delete the plug-ins from a project.

The developer was very responsive but in spite of a lot of effort, they couldn't figure out what was causing the problem, so they ended up refunding my money. I actually lost a bit of money on that because of Paypal fees (which I paid because it was my fault I didn't demo thoroughly enough), and it was a big hassle---and that suite did have a demo, I just didn't think to try deleting the plug-ins from my host because I've never had any others cause errors like that.

In the world of software, there are very compelling reasons not to ever buy anythign without being able to test it directly. It's not about faith, it's about practical issues and realities in computer based music making.

[b-pole]

--I will not buy plugins that aren't x64

x64 is ready and works great as AU64

[Compyfox]

I don't need to answer this, but maybe that drama finally finds a definite end.

They are both from the same coder, so they have that to do with eachother.

The particular quote I was refering to, was mentioning that I should use "SonEQ" as test for SatSon and then simply buy the later. SonEQ and SatSon are not related in code, only in terms of the firm.

Two different tools, not related with each other. Slightly failed topic if I may say so.

...to put it mildly, you were unkind.

So were (especially) others, even the developer himself.

And as far as secretive goes, most any plugin that is announced here by any dev doesn't get that level of drilling like you did there.

Right...
*cough* Nebula, VCC, Waves Plugins, Steinberg software, Antress, ... *cough*

...you must really get peed off by Bootsy!

Not at all actually. At least "bootsie" releases stuff for free and invites people to betatest, the developer is a trusted member of the community. On top of it you can contact him through his blog and is responsive even with topics non-related to his creations.

Something I didn't see so far with the particular developer in question.

Is the dev not making demo's anymore? I don't recall him saying that. If so then i must have missed it.

This is a spread rule in here from several "users". So it must(!) be true if the developer does neither confirm, nor deny it.

Btw, regarding you not having money. Do you own VCC? If so, how can you afford that and don't have the money for Satson? I don't mean that rude but you asked for donations. If you're really in such a tight spot and can't afford Satson but really want to hear it maybe ask a colleague if he/she has it.

1) Yes I own VCC
2) I have a certain financial framework that needs to hold out for a defined time period - whether or not, or even why I have/have not the money for a particular tool is none of your concern - and not part of this discussion
3) Show me a "colleague" in my area, that is willing to offer his studio for several hours to test "my stuff" in his environment, which would the "testing in your used to environment" make invalid.

No one is singling out this developer, unless in the case of Compyfox he really has something against him.

I don't have anything against the developer, else I would have ditched his creations/claims and moved on. I however want to confirm his claims (best filter on the market, great emulaton) first hand, still try to give him a chance.

Also---there's one issue that I'm not sure has been mentioned, and that's compatibility and possible bugs showing up that are not experienced by most users. ... I actually lost a bit of money on that because of Paypal fees (which I paid because it was my fault I didn't demo thoroughly enough), and it was a big hassle---and that suite did have a demo, I just didn't think to try deleting the plug-ins from my host because I've never had any others cause errors like that.

This resminds me of another firm, but this time from Australia.

Here I throughoutly tested the demos (if available) - they (mostly) worked fine, then jumped on their deals and stuff went downhill. Their policy was to "test the plugins prior to purchasing them", but only after some issues on their side happened as well. The story can be read in the KVR backlogs, KVRians know which firm I'm talking about.


Pretty much the same thing applies here, only the other way around. The developer asks for a "good faith" to his claims and the response from the fan"boys" and girls (if I'm allowed to say that word), but doesn't offer anything else.

I wrote him a mail last night that still needs to get answered. And I seriously hope it will. That developer needs to earn my trust first. And after seeing how many firms crashed and burned as of late, or hit and run, I am very, very careful where to put my money into. Especially with this behavior.

I have way too many stuff lying on my HDD that I once aquired at some point - but never use anymore. So I can relate with A.M. Gold.

In the world of software, there are very compelling reasons not to ever buy anythign without being able to test it directly. It's not about faith, it's about practical issues and realities in computer based music making.

Couldn't have said it better, thank you.




I hope this finally clears all remaining question/doubts/rumors towards my side. If not, PM me.

[A.M. Gold]

I'll add one more thing and and say that another member, who I like and have respect for, characterized this plug-in in this way: he said "the price is right". Well, the price is only right if you are happy with the plug-in. If you don't like it, then the price is definitely wrong, since it is wasted money.

This issue is pretty no-brainer, IMO---there is a reason why probably 95% of developers offer demos---because there is a real necessity in having them before committing to buy.

This developer got a lot of fans based on one plug-in. I think that's reaching a little, TBH.

As I said before, I do very much appreciate and value Bootsy as a developer, but there are plug-ins by him that I'm glad I didn't pay for because, even though I won't claim they aren't good, I'm not even totally sure what they are supposed to be doing most of the time.

The audio demos I've heard of this console emulation fall into the same category for me---I'm not really clear on whether there is much of a useful difference when applying this plug-in to mixes. I really have to be able to use it and tweak it myself on my own mixes to know if it is worth paying for. I am definitely intrigued by this developer based on the one plug-in he has released so far, but that is not enough for me to be buying on faith when we are talking about a plug-in like this that is not designed to be used with really dramatic effect---it's more of a subtle coloring, saturation, and gluing type of plug-in.

[gavriloP]

Compyfox, please don't ruin this thread too. Your views are clearly expressed already and that demanding tone about earning your trust is just tad egoistical. It doesn't mean jack to anyone else. It sounds totally unnecessary to read about how you are still not convinced and how you keep still smearing pylorca with these comparisons to known fraudsters (that australian company). Also it seems strange to talk about some business bureaucracy when we talk about one man company from Argentina that really has his hands full. Sonimus hasn't done any hype, he is delivering already as I type, so to speak.

If you need demo, tough. I didn't need and I am damn pleased, this is one of the best buys I've ever done. And I'm not rich so even that kind of money means something to me, too. It is most unfair to compare him to some freeware developer like bootsy. Pylorca was one of them but not anymore. He went commercial and it is huge step. Now he has to deliver all these platforms 32bit 64bit, mac, windows etc. and he just can't say, I only deliver 32bit windows and nothing more (like bootsy, for example). He has his hands full, and I'm sure his emails and PMs are pretty full around the net so there is not much interest for "can I have a demo, please?" posts. Give him some slack.

We all buy constantly stuff without demoing in "real world", this whole concept of demo is just gravy. I just bought a tremolo pedal based purely on web reviews and one feeble youtube video. It costed more than Satson and I'm not complaining.

And finally, hasn't it occured that there is also a reason for him not to do a demo? He uses personalized copies for customers as his copy protection scheme. If he would release almost full working demo (which it has to be nowadays or people just crucify you for that too)he would have to spend some valuable research time to make that demo such that it can't be cracked.

I fully understand that he isn't so keen on doing the demo. This method already works for Sknote and Audio Damage, and I'm a happy customer for both of them.


Now, can we get back to Satson?

[A.M. Gold]

None of the above arguments have much general relevance to this issue. Yes, we have seen you are a fan. Again, no general relevance there.

If this developer is intentionally going to go the "no demo, but full refund, no questions asked" route, as Audio Damage does, then he needs to state that clearly on his own website, and stick to it in practice.

"I went on faith because I am a big fan and couldn't be happier with my purchase" has absolutely no relevance to this general debate.

[dalor]

Wait wait everyone!! I need to get me some popcorn and a coke! ... OK, ready! !JJerryy Jeeryy!! *slurp*munch*

[A.M. Gold]

Yes, get your popcorn while the fans crowd around their idol. Otherwise, this never would have been an argument. As I said, 95% of developers offer demos, and that isn't by accident.

This argument is silly, but that isn't because of what the defenders of this developer will claim.

[macmurphy]

i can see where this thread is going to go...again

[musicdoc]

Some people have just too much free time on their hands. How many times can one belabor the same point.. we get that you would like a demo.

Bought the plug in, based on my faith in my fellow KVRist's. Great purchase. Gives music that bit of extra warmth and sizzle. The price definitely makes it a bargain, even if you only use it for the filters.

[bezusheist]

you could save 15% or more on your car insurance by switching to Satson...
(i have too much free time on my hands)