Legality of distributing sampled synths

[whyterabbyt]

Seriously though, (I didn't get right through the thread so sorry if this has already been opined) I think the law is a bit of an ass here. Imagine this - A company creates an instrument in which the sound is electronically generated, then later releases the next generation of that product, the sole difference being that the sounds are stored as samples in memory solely to save on building costs.

The law considers that it's harmful to that company to sample one of its instruments, but not the other, despite the resulting soundsets being identical. Ludicrous. Either the company is being harmed in both instances or it's being harmed in neither.

I really would like someone to manufacture the above situation and let the legal ball roll to see what we get. Well, the law already states what the outcome will be: ludicrous, of course!

The only conclusion I can reach is that judges are lunatic audiophiles who think the samples sound 'warmer' or something.

re-read chj's post again; the one directly above yours.

there probably isnt a law made that someone couldn't contrive an 'edge case' for where the law could be made to look ludicrous for that instance. The purpose of the law isnt to cope with all those potential edge cases; thats what courts and judges do.
In your hypothetical situation, if your hypothetical company did what you hypothesises, then take your hypothetical samplist to hypothetical court, then one could also hypothesis that their hypothetical lawyer might hypothetically get them off...
But the hypothesis doesnt prove the law 'ludicrous', it just underlies that its very specific in its remit; recordings. Not 'the sound that comes out of a box'.
The copyright laws are about the copying specific kinds of artistic work, not the device used to produce or reproduce work.

[izonin]

You can't consult a lawer every time you go shoping for a new synth.

and you don't need to, you only need to if you're going to distribute sampled instruments.

And when your friend says: hey i like that patch you've made! would you sample it for me?

You won't be very happy to discover that it's illegal. But you'll sample it anyway.

[whyterabbyt]

In a perfect world the manufacturer should be providing this information

Of course its not a perfect world. If only someone could create a useful phrase to warn people of that; something like 'buyer beware' only posher and more legal sounding; maybe in Latin.

(And in a perfect world, people would also do their research, because sometimes the manufacturer doesnt get it right.)

[whyterabbyt]

You won't be very happy to discover that it's illegal. But you'll sample it anyway.

Or say 'sorry, I cant do that'.

[trimph1]

People don't know that they are breaking the law, until they ask on forums. The manufacturer should be warning the customer about such potential illegal actions before the purchase. And not on the last page of the manual.

But they DO!!! All over the manuals there are these comments about potentially illegal actions...what is the problem with READING the Manual?!?!?!?

[thecontrolcentre]

And when your friend says: hey i like that patch you've made! would you sample it for me?

Tell your friend to sample it himself, then it's his problem

[chj]

And when your friend says: hey i like that patch you've made! would you sample it for me?

You won't be very happy to discover that it's illegal. But you'll sample it anyway.

and you'll never find yourself in court if your friend is the only one that gets it, so what are you complaining about?

[fmr]

Ok, tell me if it's legal to distribute samples of Access Music's Virus TI, which wavetables are copyrighted. Some people say it is, some it's not.

Couldn't find any for sale with google ... can you point some out?

There's a bank made for z3ta+ by Francesco that uses Virus samples, and has been distributed. Also, there's a bank being that was being sold by Nucleus Soundlab for various platforms. These just came to mind immediately.

[izonin]

You won't be very happy to discover that it's illegal. But you'll sample it anyway.

Or say 'sorry, I cant do that'.

Well, yes. Either way it won't have any legal consequence, because the manufacturer knows that most people don't even read the manual. That's why I said it's OK. As long as you're not a company and don't use those samples in a product, no hardware manufacturer will ever care.

[Meffy]

I once wanted to know whether I could redistribute some samples that Akai Pro used to make available for free download. Rather than ask someone else their opinions, I emailed the appropriate person at Akai Pro in Japan. He replied that I couldn't do that unless I paid a (rather large) license fee, so I thanked him and dropped my plan without any further angst.

Time spent: About eight to twelve minutes to write the first email, a wait of a couple weeks IIRC, maybe two or three minutes to write the second email. Total ten to fifteen minutes of my time.

Izonin, if you add up the time you've spent posting in this thread and divide it by ten to fifteen minutes, how many synth manufacturers could you have contacted in that time?

Direct answers. Nothing beats them, especially sophistry and wishful thinking. Give it a try. Contact the makers of some synths and ask their policies. You might not get quick answers; persevere. It'll take less effort than all that futile argument has, and you'll have actual answers when it's over.

Or don't, if you're just having fun being argumentative and don't want to know the answers. [edit: Which is annoying but there's no rule against being argumentative per se.]

[whyterabbyt]

Well, yes. Either way it won't have any legal consequence, because the manufacturer knows that most people don't even read the manual. That's why I said it's OK. As long as you're not a company and don't use those samples in a product, no hardware manufacturer will ever care.

I like the way you've been constantly shifting from saying 'they should just tell us if not its okay', and trying to make a case for going ahead and doing it anyway.

[thecontrolcentre]

There's a bank made for z3ta+ by Francesco that uses Virus samples, and has been distributed. Also, there's a bank being that was being sold by Nucleus Soundlab for various platforms. These just came to mind immediately.

This one? It states in the small print:

*This product is neither endorsed, authorized, produced, or in any way affiliated with Access Music.

Interesting.

[izonin]

I once wanted to know whether I could redistribute some samples that Akai Pro used to make available for free download. Rather than ask someone else their opinions, I emailed the appropriate person at Akai Pro in Japan. He replied that I couldn't do that unless I paid a (rather large) license fee, so I thanked him and dropped my plan without any further angst.

Time spent: About eight to twelve minutes to write the first email, a wait of a couple weeks IIRC, maybe two or three minutes to write the second email. Total ten to fifteen minutes of my time.

Izonin, if you add up the time you've spent posting in this thread and divide it by ten to fifteen minutes, how many synth manufacturers could you have contacted in that time?

Direct answers. Nothing beats them, especially sophistry and wishful thinking. Give it a try. Contact the makers of some synths and ask their policies. You might not get quick answers; persevere. It'll take less effort than all that futile argument has, and you'll have actual answers when it's over.

Or don't, if you're just having fun being argumentative and don't want to know the answers. [edit: Which is annoying but there's no rule against being argumentative per se.]

All I've been writing, is my personal advice to bbaggins. No manufacturer will ever give you permission, because if they do, other companies might see it as a precedent and go 'ok, they let that guy use the sounds, we can use them too'. So, no, don't contact the manufacturer. And don't be paranoid, they won't contact you over something like this. If you release it as an official product, then yes.

[Meffy]

All I've been writing, is my personal advice to bbaggins.

A quick glance shows this not to be the case.

[izonin]

All I've been writing, is my personal advice to bbaggins.

A quick glance shows this not to be the case.

Well I got in a little fight with the 'robocops', whose main goal seems to be spreading paranoia. You can't but agree that what bbaggins wanted to do is pretty innocent by any standards.