I am seriously considering getting a Muse Receptor box to run Ivory 2 (among other virtual instruments). Ivory 2 sounds absolutely amazing ! My question is this :
If I get the basic Receptor 2+ machine (not Pro or Pro Max) will Ivory 2 run without latency issues ? I've looked at many posts on various forums and I am trying to get a sense if the hardware on the most basic Receptor box is up to the task. I know that disk streaming is an essential part of Ivory 2 but I can't tell from the Receptor specs how fast the hard drive is.
In some forum posts people have even said they have had problems when they ran on a computer (in this case a Power MAC) where the hard drive was 7200 RPM. If I can run Ivory 2 with no latency (as well as some other virtual instruments running simultaneously, say Miroslav Philharmonik) that would be great -- I'd prefer not to get into having to use SSD drives with Receptor, or a super fast
velociraptor drive on a computer, or Receptor 2 PRO.
Also -- if there are no latency issues when running Ivory 2 on Receptor 2+ will I also get a nice piano-type feel with just a basic MIDI keyboard attached (I am thinking of getting the Fatar Numa Nano). When I tried Ivory 2 out the other day there was a strange feel to it -- it was almost like there was a slight disconnect between the feel of the notes I was playing and the sounds coming out of the speakers. This type of thing is well documented in the forums. I was actually using a Nord NP88 as the MIDI controller - when I played the acoustic piano sound on the NP88 itself it had a better feel to it (and I could really dig in) -- but the sound quality of the German piano on Ivory 2 was way, way better.
Thanks !
Using Ivory 2 on Receptor 2
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Kevin@MuseResearch Kevin@MuseResearch https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=200693
- MUSEician
- 188 posts since 11 Feb, 2009
Hey dbelmont 2.
The Receptor 2+ and all our models have adjustable latency. All models can indeed run Ivory 2 as low as 32 Samples! Although, at that low latency you might not be able to layer too much else with it. If you think you'll need to run Ivory2 with a few other synths, or multiple instances of Ivory at low latency then you'll need the horsepower upgrade the Receptor 2 + Pro offers. At the very least you could bump latency up to 64 or 128 samples, which most people still consider very fast when using our Receptor hardware.
I personally have been loving the feel of the Ivory 2 Pianos (these days I spend my lunch breaks shedding piano with one of our Receptors running Ivory!). I usually play them with a studio logic VMK 88, and don't have any problem getting lost in the sound- it's just really realistic!
Hopefully that helps you out with your decisions.
The Receptor 2+ and all our models have adjustable latency. All models can indeed run Ivory 2 as low as 32 Samples! Although, at that low latency you might not be able to layer too much else with it. If you think you'll need to run Ivory2 with a few other synths, or multiple instances of Ivory at low latency then you'll need the horsepower upgrade the Receptor 2 + Pro offers. At the very least you could bump latency up to 64 or 128 samples, which most people still consider very fast when using our Receptor hardware.
I personally have been loving the feel of the Ivory 2 Pianos (these days I spend my lunch breaks shedding piano with one of our Receptors running Ivory!). I usually play them with a studio logic VMK 88, and don't have any problem getting lost in the sound- it's just really realistic!
Hopefully that helps you out with your decisions.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 27 posts since 18 Jul, 2011 from Massachusetts
Kevin --
Thanks for the quick reply. This brings up a few questions :
1) What exactly does 32 samples mean in this context (what is it referring to) ? And, at 32 samples, can I run the full German Grand with all 18 velocity layers, etc. ?
2) I am not necessarily desirous of running a lot of other virtual instruments with Ivory 2 as my rig also includes a Nord Electro 2 which I use for Rhodes, organ and clav. So -- if I ran just Ivory 2 and a string section from Miroslav Philharmonik on a base Receptor 2+ box (again, not PRO or PRO MAX) at 32 samples would these run cleanly and with no latency issues ?
3) I am thinking of getting the Fatar Studiologic Numa Nano controller -- what have you heard about this keyboard as a MIDI controller ?
Thanks !
Dan
Thanks for the quick reply. This brings up a few questions :
1) What exactly does 32 samples mean in this context (what is it referring to) ? And, at 32 samples, can I run the full German Grand with all 18 velocity layers, etc. ?
2) I am not necessarily desirous of running a lot of other virtual instruments with Ivory 2 as my rig also includes a Nord Electro 2 which I use for Rhodes, organ and clav. So -- if I ran just Ivory 2 and a string section from Miroslav Philharmonik on a base Receptor 2+ box (again, not PRO or PRO MAX) at 32 samples would these run cleanly and with no latency issues ?
3) I am thinking of getting the Fatar Studiologic Numa Nano controller -- what have you heard about this keyboard as a MIDI controller ?
Thanks !
Dan
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- KVRist
- 103 posts since 10 Jan, 2007
Hi Dan,
1) The internal soundcard works with samples. E.g. if the samplerate is 44100 Hz, 44100 samples are processed per second (per channel). If the buffer size in the Receptor is set to 32, it means that 32 samples are calculated and subsequently sent to the internal soundcard in one block. These 32 samples take 32*1000/44100 = 0.7 ms of time to playback. After this time, new midi messages can be processed. Thus, the lower the amount of samples, the lower the latency experienced. The latency at 32 samples is very low, this feels like hardware. 64 samples is also still ok.
2) I don't know about the Receptor 2+. I use a Receptor 2 Pro with Ivory Italian grand II. Nice stuff, and I can run at 32 samples. I sometimes play another instrument together with piano on a second keyboard (midi merger) without problems. BTW: try VB3 and MrRay/Scarbee on the Receptor. I wonder if you will use the Nord much afterwards. I was deciding between Nord Electro II and the Receptor and chose the latter.
3) No opinion...
Fedde
1) The internal soundcard works with samples. E.g. if the samplerate is 44100 Hz, 44100 samples are processed per second (per channel). If the buffer size in the Receptor is set to 32, it means that 32 samples are calculated and subsequently sent to the internal soundcard in one block. These 32 samples take 32*1000/44100 = 0.7 ms of time to playback. After this time, new midi messages can be processed. Thus, the lower the amount of samples, the lower the latency experienced. The latency at 32 samples is very low, this feels like hardware. 64 samples is also still ok.
2) I don't know about the Receptor 2+. I use a Receptor 2 Pro with Ivory Italian grand II. Nice stuff, and I can run at 32 samples. I sometimes play another instrument together with piano on a second keyboard (midi merger) without problems. BTW: try VB3 and MrRay/Scarbee on the Receptor. I wonder if you will use the Nord much afterwards. I was deciding between Nord Electro II and the Receptor and chose the latter.
3) No opinion...
Fedde
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TechEverlasting TechEverlasting https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=155421
- KVRist
- 119 posts since 13 Jul, 2007
I've been using a Receptor 2+ Pro Max to run multiple instances of Ivory 2 and Omnisphere layerred for a live theater project. I think I might have it set to 64 samples, but it's still feels as fast and connected as any hardware instrument, much better than when I tried Ivory 2 on a MacBook Pro. This is by far the best piano sound I've ever gotten for live performance. The system has also been rock solid for weeks of shows. Of course Omnisphere is a PITA to edit on the Receptor, but it's sounds great and is stable in performance.
I suggest you spring for the best Receptor you can get and don't scrimp on the keyboard, the action is also critical. (A Yamaha S90 will work well, those are reasonable on the used market.) You are recreating a $50,000 instrument here, you will have to spend a few bucks to do this well.
I suggest you spring for the best Receptor you can get and don't scrimp on the keyboard, the action is also critical. (A Yamaha S90 will work well, those are reasonable on the used market.) You are recreating a $50,000 instrument here, you will have to spend a few bucks to do this well.
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- KVRian
- 691 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
I've been using Ivory 2/Italian Grand on a Receptor 2+ (Pro Max) with an SSD. This is a great setup! The load times are snappy, and I notice very little latency at 32, 64, or even 128. There is little issue playing Ivory simultaneously with Kontakt or Romplers (at least for 1-2 instances, same MIDI channel as Ivory).
As TechEverlasting mentions, the S90 has a keybed that matches quite nicely with Ivory/Receptor. I've been using this combination for a while.
Regards,
Kevin L
As TechEverlasting mentions, the S90 has a keybed that matches quite nicely with Ivory/Receptor. I've been using this combination for a while.
Regards,
Kevin L
Last edited by looneytunes on Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 27 posts since 18 Jul, 2011 from Massachusetts
Thank you everyone for your all of your comments. At this point I am leaning towards getting Muse Receptor 2+ PRO as the tech support person at MUSE said
the processor is much faster than the one on the base Receptor 2+, and that this really helps when using multiple instruments at the same time. I am not
sure how many virtual instruments I am going simultaneously (I was actually thinking of using either the Ivory 2 German Piano OR a nice orchestral string
sound or a nice string pad). All that said I'd like to be able to have the option of using two or more virtual instruments simultaneously (I listened to a demo of Lyle Mays using the Trillian bass virtual instrument along with a real grand piano -- it would be awesome in some contexts to split my MIDI keyboard and have the Trillian bass in the lower register and Ivory 2 German piano in the upper register).
It's interesting what people are saying about using the Yamaha S90 as my MIDI controller. I got into searching for a new acoustic piano sound because my Kurzweil K2500 weighs 55 pounds, and I was looking for something much lighter. I am going to give the Fatar Studiologic Numa Nano a try -- it is supposed to be very good and it weighs only 20 pounds !
And for Tech Everlasting -- what exactly is Omnisphere ?
Dan
the processor is much faster than the one on the base Receptor 2+, and that this really helps when using multiple instruments at the same time. I am not
sure how many virtual instruments I am going simultaneously (I was actually thinking of using either the Ivory 2 German Piano OR a nice orchestral string
sound or a nice string pad). All that said I'd like to be able to have the option of using two or more virtual instruments simultaneously (I listened to a demo of Lyle Mays using the Trillian bass virtual instrument along with a real grand piano -- it would be awesome in some contexts to split my MIDI keyboard and have the Trillian bass in the lower register and Ivory 2 German piano in the upper register).
It's interesting what people are saying about using the Yamaha S90 as my MIDI controller. I got into searching for a new acoustic piano sound because my Kurzweil K2500 weighs 55 pounds, and I was looking for something much lighter. I am going to give the Fatar Studiologic Numa Nano a try -- it is supposed to be very good and it weighs only 20 pounds !
And for Tech Everlasting -- what exactly is Omnisphere ?
Dan
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 27 posts since 18 Jul, 2011 from Massachusetts
And I forgot to ask one more thing (I am new at virtual instruments) :
When you say that you are running multiple instances of Ivory 2 does that mean that you have two tracks in the Receptor Mixer assigned to Ivory, one for left and one for right ?
thx,
Dan
When you say that you are running multiple instances of Ivory 2 does that mean that you have two tracks in the Receptor Mixer assigned to Ivory, one for left and one for right ?
thx,
Dan
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TechEverlasting TechEverlasting https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=155421
- KVRist
- 119 posts since 13 Jul, 2007
"And for Tech Everlasting -- what exactly is Omnisphere ?"
Omnisphere is the synth plug-in of the Gods which we mere mortals have been blessed with the use of. It's the follow-up to the "Atmosphere" ambient/analog synth plug-in, and is essentially a super-charged Rompler/VA with every sample library Spectrasonics has ever marketed on board. It's the best $480 you will ever spend. Everything about Omnisphere sounds incredible, but it's a total resource hog. A Receptor2+ Pro Max with Ivory 2, Kontakt and Omnisphere can do ANYTHING.
The reason I'm using multiple instances of Ivory 2 in this application is to make possible instant transitions between the Italian Grand and Yamaha C7 Grand pianos. (Ivory is always in stereo, as are any other stereo VSTs) There's no time for loading samples in a live show. I'm using the full 18-layer versions of both instruments and the Receptor2+ Pro Max doesn't even break a sweat.
If you follow threads on various message boards you'll run into people who go on and on about how much more CPU power or RAM a Mac or Windows PC can give you for your money. Those numbers aren't the whole story. Ivory2 just feels and sounds better on a Receptor, and you can leave it in a rack, turn it on and it will work every time.
Omnisphere is the synth plug-in of the Gods which we mere mortals have been blessed with the use of. It's the follow-up to the "Atmosphere" ambient/analog synth plug-in, and is essentially a super-charged Rompler/VA with every sample library Spectrasonics has ever marketed on board. It's the best $480 you will ever spend. Everything about Omnisphere sounds incredible, but it's a total resource hog. A Receptor2+ Pro Max with Ivory 2, Kontakt and Omnisphere can do ANYTHING.
The reason I'm using multiple instances of Ivory 2 in this application is to make possible instant transitions between the Italian Grand and Yamaha C7 Grand pianos. (Ivory is always in stereo, as are any other stereo VSTs) There's no time for loading samples in a live show. I'm using the full 18-layer versions of both instruments and the Receptor2+ Pro Max doesn't even break a sweat.
If you follow threads on various message boards you'll run into people who go on and on about how much more CPU power or RAM a Mac or Windows PC can give you for your money. Those numbers aren't the whole story. Ivory2 just feels and sounds better on a Receptor, and you can leave it in a rack, turn it on and it will work every time.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 27 posts since 18 Jul, 2011 from Massachusetts
I have decided to get Receptor 2+ PRO and now I just need to decide which virtual instruments I would like pre-loaded onto it at the factory.
Can anyone recommend a single plug-in that has a great orchestral string sound as well as some great string (and other types of) pads ?
Thanks,
Dan
Can anyone recommend a single plug-in that has a great orchestral string sound as well as some great string (and other types of) pads ?
Thanks,
Dan
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TechEverlasting TechEverlasting https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=155421
- KVRist
- 119 posts since 13 Jul, 2007
Kontakt, there are endless libraries available for it.
I believe all new Receptors now have N.I. Komplete pre-installed, you just have to authorize from your own serial numbers using Service Center and a remote activation file. I think it's possible to only authorize Kontakt if that's all you want.
As I said before, a Receptor 2 with Komplete, Omnisphere and Ivory 2 can do anything. That's what I would recommend.
I believe all new Receptors now have N.I. Komplete pre-installed, you just have to authorize from your own serial numbers using Service Center and a remote activation file. I think it's possible to only authorize Kontakt if that's all you want.
As I said before, a Receptor 2 with Komplete, Omnisphere and Ivory 2 can do anything. That's what I would recommend.
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TechEverlasting TechEverlasting https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=155421
- KVRist
- 119 posts since 13 Jul, 2007
Just the stock 1 TB hard drive, it works fine.
SSDs are still just a little too untested (and a lot too expensive!) for me.
I keep hearing about SSDs failing catastrophically, i.e. - suddenly and with no chance of data recovery.
Edited to add: The SSD failure reports I've been hearing are on laptops, not Receptors. Since a Receptor tends to do a lot less write operations than a laptop, and excessive write operations seem to be the cause of many SSD failures it's possible that there are no reliability issues for SSDs with Receptors. I'm watching with great interest the roll-out of the Korg Kronos, this seems to be a good mass-market test of the reliability of SSDs for electronic music applications.
My sense is that it's a better use of funds to get your Receptor's processor maxed out than to spring for an SSD.
SSDs are still just a little too untested (and a lot too expensive!) for me.
I keep hearing about SSDs failing catastrophically, i.e. - suddenly and with no chance of data recovery.
Edited to add: The SSD failure reports I've been hearing are on laptops, not Receptors. Since a Receptor tends to do a lot less write operations than a laptop, and excessive write operations seem to be the cause of many SSD failures it's possible that there are no reliability issues for SSDs with Receptors. I'm watching with great interest the roll-out of the Korg Kronos, this seems to be a good mass-market test of the reliability of SSDs for electronic music applications.
My sense is that it's a better use of funds to get your Receptor's processor maxed out than to spring for an SSD.
Last edited by TechEverlasting on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 27 posts since 18 Jul, 2011 from Massachusetts
Techeverlasting :
1) do you have experience with Miroslav Philharmonik, and if so, what do you think ? and as well -- Sampletanks ?
2) what theatre piece are you using Ivory 2 and Omnisphere for ?
As always thanks much for your responses !
Dan
1) do you have experience with Miroslav Philharmonik, and if so, what do you think ? and as well -- Sampletanks ?
2) what theatre piece are you using Ivory 2 and Omnisphere for ?
As always thanks much for your responses !
Dan
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TechEverlasting TechEverlasting https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=155421
- KVRist
- 119 posts since 13 Jul, 2007
I was able to get the complete IK Multi-media suite for $199 at Musicians Friend - this includes Sample Tank, Miroslav, SampleMoog and Sonic Synth. Since these were pre-installed as demos on my Receptor it was easy to activate them. I have to say it was just barely worth that price.dbelmont2 wrote:Techeverlasting :
"1) do you have experience with Miroslav Philharmonik, and if so, what do you think ? and as well -- Sampletanks ?"
I stand by my recommendation that you get Kontakt and Omnisphere. Some Kontakt libraries to consider are the LASS strings, Kirk Hunter orchestras and Sonivox. I don't know of any big discounts available anywhere on these plugs, but they are worth the money.
The IK Miroslav library just doesn't hold up to contemporary sample quality standards. I've never heard another library that had a harp that was out of tune with itself! I don't know how that's even possible, but it's there, and completely useless! There are some neat things in the SampleMoog library and assorted other fun items throughout the IK suite, but I wouldn't pay a nickel over $199 for the whole thing.
I know all this stuff is pricey, but if you don't put the best possible plugs in your Receptor you're better off just getting a Motif XF or Kurzweil PC3K8 keyboard. Both of those options blow the IK/Miroslav stuff out of the water.