Receptor for live gig

[Meo]

I have a quick question:

Those of you who uses Receptor for live gig, how do you trigger prgm change in multi?

I have a StudioLogic VMK-176, and everytime I have to change a patch, I have to either press a bunch of buttons on the VMK or use the mouse. Not very effective when you have to switch sound quickly in a middle of a song.

I was looking at getting a device to do my own mapping, something like Midi Solution, but accoring to them, there's so no such thing in midi as prgm up or down....

I doubt I'm the only one that had to struggle with this at one point or another.

Any input would be highly appreciated.

Regards,

[Meo]

Bump!

Wow 300 reads, and not a single input?

That's very disapointing, to say the least...

[Robert Karasek]

... maybe get a better masterkeyboard or midi-processor that can easily handle MSB/LSB ...

[billunatic]

Try a Kurzweil PC3.

[looneytunes]

How about a Behringer FCB-1010:

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-FCB1010 ... B000CZ0RK6.

This has program up/down pedals, and they can be programmed to send program changes to the channel you use to select a Multi on Receptor.

You can also purchase a new PROM for this that reprograms the 1-10 pedals such that half are toggle, and half are program select.

I have this, and it works pretty well. You do need to get one of the visual editors for the FCB, because programming this unit without one is quite cumbersome.

Hope this helps,
Kevin L

[TechEverlasting]

The best way to change programs when using a Receptor in live performance is a huge topic. Whatever you do I urge you to get a keyboard controller that will give you some flexibility with sending program changes and bank select on multiple channels. The Yamaha S90ES is good, the Kurzweil PC3X is IMHO as good as you can get in this regard.

In many cases the loading time between Receptor multis can be a problem when playing live. I tend to use a single multi with Kontakt banks that respond to program changes on individual channels. With Omnisphere the only way to go is to set up an eight-channel "Live" multi that responds to program changes. Any other method of changing Omnisphere programs will require you to make changes during 10 minute breaks.

If you only need to switch between a small number of sounds (16 maximum) snapshot banks are a great option. "Smart snapshots" which can also send program changes to individual channels of the snapshot multi would be ideal, but don't seem to be forthcoming.

[Meo]

... maybe get a better masterkeyboard or midi-processor that can easily handle MSB/LSB ...

I'm kinda hook to the studiologic for the fatar key bed. So far my research for a midi-processor (that allows me to assign prgm up or prgm down) have led me to a dead end.

They all need to have specific bank/prgm pre-assigned to specific keys; no incremental fonction available. That would mean just too many "reserved" keys....

[Meo]

Try a Kurzweil PC3.

I had a K-2600s that I sold last year. I love the kurz sound (imho the best) just as much as I hate it's complexity. It took too long to figure out the vast system and I couldn't locate interesting forums and sound template to purchase/dl.

[Meo]

How about a Behringer FCB-1010:

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-FCB1010 ... B000CZ0RK6.

This has program up/down pedals, and they can be programmed to send program changes to the channel you use to select a Multi on Receptor.

I have this, and it works pretty well. You do need to get one of the visual editors for the FCB, because programming this unit without one is quite cumbersome.

Hope this helps,
Kevin L

Whoa, that looks pretty neat. You have a receptor right? So you can confirm this would allow me to do incremental patch up or down (prgm up or down) within a multi?

You can also purchase a new PROM for this that reprograms the 1-10 pedals such that half are toggle, and half are program select.

Is this some sort of computer app? Do you have a link?

Thanks Kevin!!

[Meo]

The best way to change programs when using a Receptor in live performance is a huge topic. Whatever you do I urge you to get a keyboard controller that will give you some flexibility with sending program changes and bank select on multiple channels. The Yamaha S90ES is good, the Kurzweil PC3X is IMHO as good as you can get in this regard.

Yes I know it would prolly be the best. Only prblm, the studiologic 76 (with hammer like action) is sort of mandatory since I don't want to shovel to much equipment around. I also have a korg TE (too heavy) and a Novation SL but as said, what I bring on stage is what I'll bring to practices. 2 kb is just too much with all the other gears to bring along on a wkly basis.

In many cases the loading time between Receptor multis can be a problem when playing live. I tend to use a single multi with Kontakt banks that respond to program changes on individual channels. With Omnisphere the only way to go is to set up an eight-channel "Live" multi that responds to program changes. Any other method of changing Omnisphere programs will require you to make changes during 10 minute breaks.

If you only need to switch between a small number of sounds (16 maximum) snapshot banks are a great option. "Smart snapshots" which can also send program changes to individual channels of the snapshot multi would be ideal, but don't seem to be forthcoming.

So far that part has worked fine for me. I don't have Omnisphere and I try to avoid sample based plugins. Although I have been able to insert a few Kontakt's here and there.

What I do: Before the gig, I enable zload I go through each of my multi. Usually one multi will last for 4-7 songs. Loading time will vary around 5-30 seconds providing I did step 1 above. No problem so far.

But I'm getting hooked to kontakt samples (stuff like hollowsun's) and planning to get Omnisphere one day. So I'll keep that in mind!

[looneytunes]

How about a Behringer FCB-1010:

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-FCB1010 ... B000CZ0RK6.

This has program up/down pedals, and they can be programmed to send program changes to the channel you use to select a Multi on Receptor.

I have this, and it works pretty well. You do need to get one of the visual editors for the FCB, because programming this unit without one is quite cumbersome.

Hope this helps,
Kevin L

Whoa, that looks pretty neat. You have a receptor right? So you can confirm this would allow me to do incremental patch up or down (prgm up or down) within a multi?

You can also purchase a new PROM for this that reprograms the 1-10 pedals such that half are toggle, and half are program select.

Is this some sort of computer app? Do you have a link?

Thanks Kevin!!

Hi MEO,

I'm not sure if I understood your request completely -

Yes - I've been using this with Receptor, and I have been using this to switch Multis.

You probably could program this to switch presets on a Single on an individual Receptor Channel too - but I haven't tried this yet.

One thing though - There is a mode that I put the Receptor into (on the settings page) for the Master Channel such that it will respond to Program Changes *without* bank change prefixes. So (for example) I have the Receptor set to change multi's by PC change on Midi Channel 16. With Receptor in this 'Ignore Bank Select' mode, I have the FCB 1010 change presets on Channel 16 (the FCB simply sends PCs, without the LSB/MSB Bank Selects). This seems to work.


A few more caveats:

1.) There is some delay when changing multis - based on whatever is configured within them. Snap shot multis work fairly well.

2.) The FCB unit is built like a Tank. It is fairly heavy, requires its own AC Power, and uses Midi (not USB). (should keep this in mind for gigging situations).

3.) There are only 2 assignable toggles on this unit (even with the UnO Prom upgrade). I have been able to assign these to Mute Receptor channels. This works very nicely if you wish to have selectable layers on a single Midi channel, but dynamically turn them on/off during a performance. The other 5 toggles that you get from the Prom update can only be assigned to CCs within a given Midi Channel - so they are not as flexible as the 2 assignable toggles.

4.) These FCB1010s are fairly inexpensive at Full Compass/Amazon/all-the-usual-suspects. The Prom is available from a guy in Belgium.

5.) The best editor is a PC editor (one that has support for the unit both with and without the PROM upgrade). There were 2 other editors available - One Java app, and one Mac app. I've had best results with the PC editor.

Hope this helps,
Kevin L

[Meo]

How about a Behringer FCB-1010:

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-FCB1010 ... B000CZ0RK6.

This has program up/down pedals, and they can be programmed to send program changes to the channel you use to select a Multi on Receptor.

I have this, and it works pretty well. You do need to get one of the visual editors for the FCB, because programming this unit without one is quite cumbersome.

Hope this helps,
Kevin L

Whoa, that looks pretty neat. You have a receptor right? So you can confirm this would allow me to do incremental patch up or down (prgm up or down) within a multi?

You can also purchase a new PROM for this that reprograms the 1-10 pedals such that half are toggle, and half are program select.

Is this some sort of computer app? Do you have a link?

Thanks Kevin!!

Hi MEO,

I'm not sure if I understood your request completely -

Yes - I've been using this with Receptor, and I have been using this to switch Multis.

You probably could program this to switch presets on a Single on an individual Receptor Channel too - but I haven't tried this yet.

One thing though - There is a mode that I put the Receptor into (on the settings page) for the Master Channel such that it will respond to Program Changes *without* bank change prefixes. So (for example) I have the Receptor set to change multi's by PC change on Midi Channel 16. With Receptor in this 'Ignore Bank Select' mode, I have the FCB 1010 change presets on Channel 16 (the FCB simply sends PCs, without the LSB/MSB Bank Selects). This seems to work.


A few more caveats:

1.) There is some delay when changing multis - based on whatever is configured within them. Snap shot multis work fairly well.

2.) The FCB unit is built like a Tank. It is fairly heavy, requires its own AC Power, and uses Midi (not USB). (should keep this in mind for gigging situations).

3.) There are only 2 assignable toggles on this unit (even with the UnO Prom upgrade). I have been able to assign these to Mute Receptor channels. This works very nicely if you wish to have selectable layers on a single Midi channel, but dynamically turn them on/off during a performance. The other 5 toggles that you get from the Prom update can only be assigned to CCs within a given Midi Channel - so they are not as flexible as the 2 assignable toggles.

4.) These FCB1010s are fairly inexpensive at Full Compass/Amazon/all-the-usual-suspects. The Prom is available from a guy in Belgium.

5.) The best editor is a PC editor (one that has support for the unit both with and without the PROM upgrade). There were 2 other editors available - One Java app, and one Mac app. I've had best results with the PC editor.

Hope this helps,
Kevin L

Hi Kevin,

My problm is that I'm such a beginner with midi that I don't explain myself very well.

I think for most experienced midi user, prgm change means assigning a specific bank/prgm to a specific control.

That is no use for me cause I have around 20 differents patches to use during a gig, spread over 4 or 5 multi.

What I'm trying to do is to send an incremental change command to the receptor. In other words, say I'm on a multi called SET1, I want to press a control to move to the very next patch. If I press again the same control, it'll move to the next one. So on and so forth, regardless on what multi is loaded. Just like clicking the top right arrow to move to the next patch on the receptor GUI.

The multi themself I can change them manually between songs. I don't have to change multi during a song. Just patches.

Yes I have the 'Ignore Bank Select' selected as well. It works well on my controller, when I press prgm up, I'm moving to patch 2 if I'm on patch 1, and to patch 6 if I'm on patch 5. Only problem, I have to press a few buttons on the controller to access the prgm up-down page, not very usefull when you have to change sound instantly.

That's all I need to do, move from one patch to the next using a foot controller. Perhaps I don't need something this big...

I hope I'm explaining this more clearly.

TIA

[looneytunes]

Hi Meo,

OK - I'm getting what you want now ...

First (quick answer )
No - there is no way to assign multi/single program-up/program-down on the Receptor. (Too bad! - would make your job easier). So no controller is going to help you do that.

Second - the next best thing is to program out all of your patches/multis as (Receptor) singles & multis. This will allow you to do programmed scene changes. Using Receptor's Snapshot banks is a nice way to change presets on multiple channels without re-loading the plugins.

I think once you have this, the FCB can help you from there. As I previously posted, FCB doesn't send MSB/LSBs, but will send PCs (and Receptor can interpret PCs without the MSB/LSB for a given bank). For each scene (preset) on the FCB, you can program it to send up to 5 PCs (on different Midi channels). So using the FCBs scene-up/down pedals, you can change presets on (up to) 5 Receptor channels.


So I think you might be able to get instrument preset changes (if you map everything out into Receptor Singles / Multis) and have the FCB toggle them up and down. It's still (programmed) preset selection though, and not 'increment/decrement' of individual presets.

I hope this helps. Feel free to ask more questions.

Regards,
Kevin L

[Meo]

Hi Meo,

OK - I'm getting what you want now ...

First (quick answer )
No - there is no way to assign multi/single program-up/program-down on the Receptor. (Too bad! - would make your job easier). So no controller is going to help you do that.

Humm...well I can already do it from my controller pressing the button prgm-up, and it's moving right to the next patch (or scene) in a given snap shot bank. I don't see why it is such a big deal. I have to reach with on hand thought, and while playing, it's a no-no.

Second - the next best thing is to program out all of your patches/multis as (Receptor) singles & multis. This will allow you to do programmed scene changes. Using Receptor's Snapshot banks is a nice way to change presets on multiple channels without re-loading the plugins.

It's already setup like that Kevin. I have all my singles in snapshot banks already. But I hate reaching for my mouse to move to the next scene live... I think I threw you off with singles and multis. I'm only refering to snapshot banks here.

I think once you have this, the FCB can help you from there. As I previously posted, FCB doesn't send MSB/LSBs, but will send PCs (and Receptor can interpret PCs without the MSB/LSB for a given bank). For each scene (preset) on the FCB, you can program it to send up to 5 PCs (on different Midi channels). So using the FCBs scene-up/down pedals, you can change presets on (up to) 5 Receptor channels.

Ahhh, I think we're getting somewhere. I'm so thick when it comes to midi. Thanks for your patience.

Ok first lets make things easier; every channels are midi channel 1 in my snapshot banks. When you're throwing that into the mix, it's really confusing me lol

All my scenes are arranged into patches in my snapshot banks. Keep in mind I have no question regarding receptor itself, I got that covered pretty much, and I'm already using those snapshot banks efficiently.

But the whole idea of snapshot banks is to switch quickly to the next patch (what you call scene) in order to change sound during a song.

What I don't want, is to have 10 switch where each single one is assign to a specific patch (or scene) cause that will be confusing, I can't affort to have to locate one quickly in the middle of a song.

I'd rather use only one switch (and always the same one) to move up in my scenes. This is the key issue here, only one switch (or 2) at the most assign to this task. I could keep pressing that switch when required until I reach the ends of my scenes (patches).

If one's using Receptor live, it seems to me this is the first thing one would want to address (unless it's a good controller that make uses of MSB/LSBs)...

From what you're telling me, this could be done, right? I don't see why it would be so difficult. My studiologic with it's shitty midi implementation can do it, it's just not convenient.

[looneytunes]

Hi Meo,

OK - I'm getting what you want now ...

First (quick answer )
No - there is no way to assign multi/single program-up/program-down on the Receptor. (Too bad! - would make your job easier). So no controller is going to help you do that.

Humm...well I can already do it from my controller pressing the button prgm-up, and it's moving right to the next patch (or scene) in a given snap shot bank. I don't see why it is such a big deal. I have to reach with on hand thought, and while playing, it's a no-no.

Hi again -

This clarification might mean little for you, but I'm sure it will make a difference for others reading this -

I stand by my earlier statement - The Receptor has no assignable controls for toggle Program Up/Down. Your controller has up/down buttons, which simply cause a PC to be sent to the Receptor (one PC more/less than what the controller believes is the current Program number). Effectively, this is similar to what I described.

Try an experiment though - start your controller at Program 1. Send the PC increment to Receptor (Receptor should have Preset 2 selected). Go to your Receptor's interface, and select Preset 5. Now go back to your controller, and hit PC increment again. Does Receptor go to Preset 6, or Preset 3?

Anyway, I just thought this might need some clarification.

Best,
Kevin