Beta version of MDynamicEq available, optinions?

[MeldaProduction]

Hi folks,

so here is the newest creation (right now Windows only):

32-bit: http://www.meldaproduction.com/download ... _setup.exe
64-bit: http://www.meldaproduction.com/download ... _setup.exe

This time I'd like you to check it for me first, so that you can "affect" the final version and we don't need to bother with backwards compatibility yet. I'd like it to be the real to-go eq, as it knows basically everything I have seen anywhere plus some more and it's still easy-to-use.

Main main questions are:
1) There are only 5 bands (plus HP and LP filters).
This time I'd rather keep things simple. After all, if you use more than 5 bands, then you are probably doing something wrong . Agree?

2) The band editor is open by default.
In other equalizers it is closed by default, but here it seems useful to have it open, as attack/release settings are available from there.

3) There are only a few dynamic parameters available.
The detector is based on the MDynamics engine, which is ultra-powerful, but again, I'd rather keep things simple this time. So there is attack time, then release time which is Auto by default. Then just dynamic gain, prefiltering mode and side-chain toggle, that's all .

Well, please let me know what you think .

Cheers!

[IIRs]

Hi Vojtech,

This caught my attention, as I'm a big fan of dynamic EQ and so far I'm stuck with my own Synthedit / Synthmaker designs (see here for example)

Just gave it a quick go on laptop speakers so far. Really like it in general: animated EQ curve is great! I love the Sonogram. Also love the fact the oversampling is available.

In answer to your questions:

1. I agree, 5 bands is plenty.

2. Yes, works for me.

3. This is where we part company. I think its a shame that threshold and ratio are lumped together into one "Dynamics" parameter, as this sacrifices a lot of flexibility. I also find the calibration of this control confusing: a dB scale implies that its a threshold control, but it actually seems to operate as a ratio instead..?

So here's my suggestion / request: keep your layout as it is (but maybe re-label / re-calibrate the "Dynamics" parameter as "Ratio", assuming I'm correct about what it does) but add one of your advanced edit panels to provide the full complement of dynamics parameters if needed (ideally including a Range control as well).

In a perfect world the advanced panel would also allow the sidechain filters to be tuned independently of the EQ band they are controlling: all sorts of useful mix rescue techniques become possible then! But this is a more esoteric application: I would settle for just proper threshold and ratio controls.

[Cooker]

I'm liking it so far and could say keep it as it is cause to me a dyn.eq should be as simple as possible, so there's a difference compared to opening a multiband comp. .

Maybe I'm missing but there isn't a dynamics on/off button per band right? if yes I'd actually like the option so I can compare my dyn. setting to hear if I want to use it or not. Also auto-listen function doesn't seem to care about dynamics

[MeldaProduction]

Thanks folks. So :

To IIRs: The dynamic gain is really a dynamic gain. There is no threshold no ratio. It's not a compressor, it doesn't have crossovers or anything. It is really a dynamic eq - imagine a normal equalizer, where the gains of each band can vary according to input signal. The input gets higher -> the gain goes up or down, depending on what you want. The concept is probably much simpler than with compressors, and the only problem is that you are used to how compressors work. Each band can actually work similarly to a compressor, but that's just a coincidence .
What it leaks is additional dynamic parameters like RMS length, peak hold, auto release modes etc.

To Cooker:
There's no dynamic on/off at the moment, shouldn't be a problem, the question is how far is that possible as it is all controlled by the signal parameter "dynamic gain". ?
Auto-listen doesn't care about dynamics intentionally - it is designed for you to "find the right frequency", so the dynamical behaviour could actually be a problem IMHO. Does it make sense?

[Cooker]

I would also not want to complex things with more options but for workflow reasons an on/off button per band (or an alternative) might be logical.

Like; I adjust eq first and naturally would try dyn. funtion later. So I adjust dyn funtion but want to compare if its good or bad on material (compared to only eq). Problem is I have to toggle between dyn setting zero to the amount I selected to compare so its not fast/comfortable. An on/off button (default on)make this easyer.

BUT...

Lets say I increased a band 5 db without touching dyn. The moment I try dyn. function the "energy" won't stay the same (now there is more or less than 5 db gain on band) so now I have to change eq band gain again...

If there's a way to compansate this it would be great.

Like; if I'm at +5 db on a band, then increase dyn. slider it isn't +5 db to my ear anymore, its more than that. So I guess what I request is if I increase/decrease the dyn. slider I'd like the eq gain to add/drop according or atleast similarly. This way then we won't need a dyn. on/off button

[IIRs]

So if I understand you correctly, the dynamic behaviour is keyed from the full range input signal, so will be the same regardless of the frequency you tune the band to?

Fair enough.

I'm still waiting for someone to make a proper version of my own dynamic EQ design however. This consists of a suitably filtered sidechain signal driving a conventional dynamics section, in turn driving the gain of an EQ filter. This allows specific frequencies to be compressed (a great way to cure "one note bass" for example) or expanded (eg: to make the kick thump more without affecting the bass) and has an enormous range of problem solving applications... perhaps you would consider this for the future?

[MeldaProduction]

Lets say I increased a band 5 db without touching dyn. The moment I try dyn. function the "energy" won't stay the same (now there is more or less than 5 db gain on band) so now I have to change eq band gain again...

If there's a way to compansate this it would be great.

Like; if I'm at +5 db on a band, then increase dyn. slider it isn't +5 db to my ear anymore, its more than that. So I guess what I request is if I increase/decrease the dyn. slider I'd like the eq gain to add/drop according or atleast similarly. This way then we won't need a dyn. on/off button

No no, this makes no sense to me.
Ok, so here's the way you should probably use it if you want to use it as a normal equalizer, but enjoy the dynamics (as opposed to special tricks, like de-essing):
1) Use it at ordinary equalizer.
2) Let's say you are processing a bass drum, use a peak filter at 80Hz, and some hits are just too loud. So you decrease the dynamic gain to say -10dB, so that it will avoid the overloading, and in fact provides some sort of bass compression.

You basically use the dynamic gain to avoid/exagerate changes in the input gain in that particular band. In that matter the on/off button would make sense.

[MeldaProduction]

So if I understand you correctly, the dynamic behaviour is keyed from the full range input signal, so will be the same regardless of the frequency you tune the band to?

Not at all, at least unless you open the band settings and set mode to "Entire spectrum". Otherwise it prefilters it so that the band is driven by the part of the spectrum it actually affects . Check the help in the band parameters.

Fair enough.

I'm still waiting for someone to make a proper version of my own dynamic EQ design however. This consists of a suitably filtered sidechain signal driving a conventional dynamics section, in turn driving the gain of an EQ filter. This allows specific frequencies to be compressed (a great way to cure "one note bass" for example) or expanded (eg: to make the kick thump more without affecting the bass) and has an enormous range of problem solving applications... perhaps you would consider this for the future?

But that's exactly what it does! (at least from your description it looks so )

Edit: Just check the de-essing presets.

[IIRs]

Ok, I read the help and played around a bit more: it does indeed seem to be almost what I'm looking for after all.

But I'm confused about the dynamics still: if its reducing dynamic range, how is it not a compressor? Likewise, if its increasing the dynamic range, its an expander surely? You seem to be keying the dynamics from signal levels rather than from transients like the Voxengo plugs, right?

I experimented a bit with a sine wave test tone feeding the sidechain inputs: as far as I can tell it seems to have a fixed threshold somewhere around -36dB approx, while the Dynamics parameter seems to be some combination of ratio and range... is that not correct?

[MeldaProduction]

No .

I think you are thinking too much about compressors & expanders. The fact that it decreases/increases dynamic range doesn't mean it is a compressor. It really doesn't have any threshold nor ratio. There is no compression/expansion curve, it's all the result of the dynamic band gain adjustment. And yes, it's level based, not transient based.

I'm kind of thinking about providing editable shape for the applied dynamic gain, just for you , but I'm reluctant as it would make the plugin more complex and that's what I'm trying to avoid.


I recommend stop using analyzers as you can hardly use a dynamic analyzer on an equalizer, despite it is dynamic. To see what I'm talking about, take a drum loop,
place a peak filter at 50Hz, Q around 1, dynamic gain say +12dB, attack 10ms, release 500ms - it will start booming the bass drum . I just cloned it from the Brainworx bx boom plugin, as some guy from facebook asked me to . Pretty cool, I'm starting to be really happy about this plugin .

[IIRs]

I'm kind of thinking about providing editable shape for the applied dynamic gain, just for you , but I'm reluctant as it would make the plugin more complex and that's what I'm trying to avoid.

Yes please! Considering your plug allows you to adjust the pre-filtering for the analyzer (!) I don't think a dynamic transfer editor would be too out of place

To see what I'm talking about, take a drum loop,
place a peak filter at 50Hz, Q around 1, dynamic gain say +12dB, attack 10ms, release 500ms - it will start booming the bass drum . I just cloned it from the Brainworx bx boom plugin, as some guy from facebook asked me to . Pretty cool, I'm starting to be really happy about this plugin .

Dynamic EQ rocks! I remember feeling much the same when first trying out my IQ4 plug... that was nearly 6 years ago however, and I'm still waiting for another plug that covers the same feature set!

Imagine we had full control over the traditional dynamics parameters, with upward and downward compression or expansion: one of my first Aha! moments came when trying to fit an acoustic guitar part into an already fairly busy mix. I didn't want to just chop out the low end as the part was exposed in places, so I tried applying downwards expansion to just the low and low-mid frequencies instead. This allowed each strum to have a full frequency response, but forced the low end to decay much more rapidly than it would otherwise. The result was quite uncanny: the character of the sound seemed hardly to have changed, but it suddenly fit perfectly where it refused to before.

Now imagine that the sidechain fltering could be tuned independantly of the EQ band: a favorite mastering trick of mine is to set the sidechain filter to high-pass, and tune to it exclude just the low subs and bass, then tune the EQ filter as a high-shelf at around 8KHz and up, and dial in some fast upward expansion to create a very transparent enhancer type effect.

Or lets say you want to add more upper-mid snap to a snare drum without affecting the rest of the mix: tune the sidechain filter to some frequency in which the snare dominates, then use that to drive upward expansion of the upper mids.

The potential applications are almost endless!

[Cooker]

Lets say I increased a band 5 db without touching dyn. The moment I try dyn. function the "energy" won't stay the same (now there is more or less than 5 db gain on band) so now I have to change eq band gain again...

If there's a way to compansate this it would be great.

Like; if I'm at +5 db on a band, then increase dyn. slider it isn't +5 db to my ear anymore, its more than that. So I guess what I request is if I increase/decrease the dyn. slider I'd like the eq gain to add/drop according or atleast similarly. This way then we won't need a dyn. on/off button

No no, this makes no sense to me.
Ok, so here's the way you should probably use it if you want to use it as a normal equalizer, but enjoy the dynamics (as opposed to special tricks, like de-essing):
1) Use it at ordinary equalizer.
2) Let's say you are processing a bass drum, use a peak filter at 80Hz, and some hits are just too loud. So you decrease the dynamic gain to say -10dB, so that it will avoid the overloading, and in fact provides some sort of bass compression.

You basically use the dynamic gain to avoid/exagerate changes in the input gain in that particular band. In that matter the on/off button would make sense.

First of all, thanks for the reply

I totally understand what you mean and my understanding is such approach is similar to multiband comp. (in basic usage) which is fine of course.

I only wonder 1 thing which is not a request but a question: if the dyn. slider was actually a wet/dry slider (meaning the dyn. slider is actually full on either comp. or expanding depending to such "wet/dry" slider changes) would this make its responce smoother in usage?

[MeldaProduction]

I only wonder 1 thing which is not a request but a question: if the dyn. slider was actually a wet/dry slider (meaning the dyn. slider is actually full on either comp. or expanding depending to such "wet/dry" slider changes) would this make its responce smoother in usage?

No. Because with the dynamic gain you can make it positive or negative, independent on the actual band gain. When it comes to using it, I think it's more about getting used to it, for me it feels absolutely natural.

[MeldaProduction]

I'm kind of thinking about providing editable shape for the applied dynamic gain, just for you , but I'm reluctant as it would make the plugin more complex and that's what I'm trying to avoid.

Yes please! Considering your plug allows you to adjust the pre-filtering for the analyzer (!) I don't think a dynamic transfer editor would be too out of place

I'll think about it, but honestly I'm not so into it... I think the added value will be very small, mostly for some special effects.

Now imagine that the sidechain fltering could be tuned independantly of the EQ band: a favorite mastering trick of mine is to set the sidechain filter to high-pass, and tune to it exclude just the low subs and bass, then tune the EQ filter as a high-shelf at around 8KHz and up, and dial in some fast upward expansion to create a very transparent enhancer type effect.

In the entire spectrum, there could be a low-pass, but no specialized equalizer. I mean an equalizer for each band of an equalizer, this is way too much even for me .

[Cooker]

Thank you! I'm looking forward to the release!