How can we improve the patch contests?

[Bronto Scorpio]

Since I won an NFR for a product that's not even released

That is possible? NICE!

My suggestion is no suggestion. I think it's fine the way it is. Good job guys.

+1
This should stay a fun little contest and not something which involves a complicated voting system which requires antimatter to be filled in tubes while pink elephants dance to the hungarian national anthem.

Edit: It would be nice if we could vote for 5 patches if there are more than 30(?) entrants though. We did this some contests ago IIRC.

Cheers
Dennis

[mcnoone]

+1 If everyone's happy with the status quo, then so be it.
Poll?

Actually, I think you have some good ideas, but I think the changes would take more effort, and the results "might" take away from aspects of it.
As example. People like to see the votes. Hide the votes, and the contest might get less voting, and people would not be able to add the reasons they liked it either.

I saw your post in the other thread too, but did not feel it was a "take the bat and go home" reason.
Yours was a good reason, imo.
I for one, don't have enough time anymore for it, as my patches can most times take too many hours, so I don't do it anymore.
Rather use em toward a whole set release instead.

[hakey]

Whatever his reasons, I think it a little odd that someone who says that they don't intend to take part in future contests seems so keen to change the way these contests are run.

[Crackbaby]

Being one who have yet to participate i can only say that there's nothing about the rules preventing me from wanting to join in. So in other words, there's nothing that needs to be changed to increase my motivation

I find this competition to be just insanely awesome!

[3ee]

Seems that this thread is going for a big "sub-topic" ...but on the other hand things debated must be conclusive that's for sure, so in the mean while, let's focus on some other opinions for improvement as well. ..like: hmm don't know at the moment

here are a couple of things that I like:

-5 place vote format when 30+ patches.
Big up for this as it will make voting easier especially when a lot of cool patches are in.

-I find the secret ballot to be a good idea.
don't worry so much of people loosing interest to vote if they won't see the votes as they come in the possibility of winning an u-he product should be enough to motivate people to vote, on second thoughts, the secret ballot might get people to vote even more, (at least get all the contestants) think about it!
So, get people to vote like before (including few comments about the patches they are voting for if they like) and I can gather all the votes and post the in a big post within the voting thread after the voting stage in over.

-asking for a few lines in the patch description will be cool.
Think about all the potential cool patches that are played improperly.

That's it for the moment

Oh yeah.... and u-he staff can cast "super-votes" and they will be summoned only when the case implies

[hakey]

-5 place vote format when 30+ patches.
Big up for this as it will make voting easier especially when a lot of cool patches are in.

Yes, I like this, *but* I can also see the merits of keeping things consistent from one contest to the other. And Brian runs the voting threads, so I'm happy leaving any decision here up to him.

I find the secret ballot to be a good idea.

Okay, but this presupposes that there is a workable way (one that's not any harder than the present system) to achieve this. What do you suggest?

the secret ballot might get people to vote even more

Or, if it involved sending a PM, it might put off non-participating voters (and I can only think of one occasion recently where a participant has failed to vote).

asking for a few lines in the patch description will be cool

Yes, I did specifically suggest that people do this in last month's contest.

Oh yeah.... and u-he staff can cast "super-votes" and they will be summoned only when the case implies

That's one way of deciding a tie (in the unlikely event it happens again). Alternatively counting up the number of 3pt scores, or having a 24 hour sudden death vote seem sensible solutions.

...

One general point - I think keeping things as simple as possible is important. The more rules and requirements are added the more scope there is for confusion. To this end I try very hard to keep the contest announcements as clear and simple as I can, so I'm loathe to see the addition of more rules, unless there is very good reason for it.

...

[hakey]

This thread might be worth reading - a lot of the same arguments were made.

Note Urs' and bmrzycki's posts.

(and Slinky Productions was Drumtarded/j3l1yt0t5 all along! )

[aaron aardvark]

I agree the voting should remain secret for reasons already mentioned. I think the contests are a great idea.

[hakey]

I have sympathy for the argument for a secret ballot. The worry that voters may be influenced by those votes already cast *is* a flaw with the current system. If it could be shown to be practicable, I'd be in favour of implementing a secret ballot.

There are two ways this could be done.

1. Via PMs to a neutral party - presumably bmrzycki.

Problem: it would add another layer of tedious administration to what is already a thankless task for bmrzycki. If he's not up for it (and I wouldn't blame him), the idea's a non-runner.

2. Via a voting site somewhere other than KVR.

Problems: Which site? Who's going to set it up and run it? How can we have the same accountability and transparency that we currently have? How do we prevent fraud (eg people signing up under assumed KVR nicknames)

Those who'd like to see a secret ballot need to come up with solutions to the above problems, otherwise we'll just stick with the imperfect, but workable, system we have at present.

[aaron aardvark]

I'm somewhat new around here & I forgot the current system isn't secret. What if everything was kept the same, but not making the vote count public until the winner is announced? Or not mention vote count at all, and only say who won.

[RexXx]

I don't wanna miss the voting thrill , it's a part of the contest.

What about more freedom with voting points?
E.g., give the six points flexible as you like, but at least, you have to vote for two or three patches.

[hakey]

What if everything was kept the same, but not making the vote count public until the winner is announced? Or not mention vote count at all, and only say who won.

So long as votes are made publicly in a voting thread the vote count is there for anyone who can be bothered to count the votes up for themselves - there's no half-way house between a secret ballot and the present system.

What about more freedom with voting points? E.g., give the six points flexible as you like, but at least, you have to vote for two or three patches.

I'm in favour of keeping things simple, and the 3,2,1 system seems adequate to me, but if a majority support the idea of flexible voting it could happen.

[3ee]

Didn't thought that "simple" things could get so complicated.
Let's just keep things the way they are + some minor tweaks if needed...or switch to secret ballot and other stuff for one edition only to see how it goes maybe.

[Breeze]

In the end, it's really up to the people handling the contest. They're the ones putting in the time and effort, so they know best what they are willing to do and handle. Sometimes I have a tendency to forget the human factor... like the physicist optimizing milk production by designing a perfectly spherical cow...

@hakey: I care about this community very much. Both it and Urs has made it possible for me to acquire excellent tools at a time when my resources have been quite limited. It's also an unusually cordial and respectful environment. I'm very grateful for both of these things. Even if I don't participate in the ZPC's (which isn't a 100% sure thing... like I've mentioned, I find them fun and educational), I have every intention of being part of this community and ultimately I care very much for it, and for its and U-he's visibility and growth. That was the entire reason for my ZPC suggestions; they came from a good place.

OK! Moving on then! Strike up the band!

[bmrzycki]

I've toyed with the idea to write a python program for myself that will do a lot of the tedious work for me. It'd require a strict template to be submitted to me for voting results to work automatically. I could post the template to the thread and people could copy it, vote for the patches they want and then send it to me I could make the program list people who have voted, the current tally, and sort the tally list.

It would look something like:

Code: Select all

voter = kvr_voter_name
patch_1_name = 3
patch_2_name = 2
patch_3_name = 1

In order for this to work though it would require people to give me the exact spelling of a patch, something that doesn't happen right now. And is the reason I was thinking of a template...