Beta version of MDynamicEq available, optinions?

[valsolim]

Hello, Vojtech,

I have just checked the last beta and I must thank you very much for the shift and scale parameters in the advanced settings (transformation curve). This is really a much more general and comfortable solution than my original suggestion (to extend the Y-axis down to -100%).

Now it's really a joy to tweak the dynamics behaviour - it's so flexible and still easy to use! You seem to be a genius...

Best regards
--
Miloslav

[MeldaProduction]

Hello, Vojtech,

I have just checked the last beta and I must thank you very much for the shift and scale parameters in the advanced settings (transformation curve). This is really a much more general and comfortable solution than my original suggestion (to extend the Y-axis down to -100%).

Now it's really a joy to tweak the dynamics behaviour - it's so flexible and still easy to use! You seem to be a genius...

Best regards
--
Miloslav

Thank you Miloslav , but don't use it too much yet, it is constantly being changed!

[daxliniere]

Hi Vojtech,
I'm just about to jump into testing beta 3.

Can you please implement ALT+click = reset parameter. Currently SHIFT+click allows the user to type a value, but there is no reset modifier key.

EDIT: I found it (right-click parameter)


Another thing; it would be great if you had a new 'auto' setting for upsampling. Instead of me explaining it here, just look at any of the recent Voxengo plugins and you'll see what I mean. (In Global Settings you can choose the oversampling level to be used for offline renders)

Cheers,
Dax.

[daxliniere]

Wow, the harmonics feature is GREAT! Very well implemented too, with the harmonics selectors (though they should be labelled as some people might not realise they're not just pretty green dots )

-More user interface stuff; the 'Advanced Dynamic Settings' window should be attached to the 'Band x settings' window, or at the very least it should show the band number.

-Also, not being able to adjust parameters on the main window and keep the 'Band x settings' window open is a nuisance, especially since it's very common to want to adjust threshold and ratio ("ratio") at the same time. VST plugins support a changeable window size (as seen in Slate VCC). I would like to press a button to make the 'Band x settings' panel pop out and another button to make the 'Advanced Dynamic Settings' panel pop out from that.

-Dynamics should be renamed to "Dynamic Gain"

-I would really like to be able to audition the band's sidechain (and difference) from the main window.


I will keep testing and let you know if I come up with anything else.

Cheers,
Dax.

[daxliniere]

Yeah, the way the extra windows close all the time is kinda annoying. Add to that having to open one popup from another popup.

I have to say that the Advanced Dynamics window is not very usable. I mean, I think I could probably get some work done with this plugin, but there would be a lot of messing around to get the desired effect. For starters the X and Y axes are not even labelled as to what they are. I guess it was a kind of transfer graph allowing ratio and knee editing in one window?

Also, the EQ band auditioning doesn't seem to match the result. How is this implemented?

Is there a way to set the parameter sliders to non-absolute? I would like the precision of being able to click and drag on a parameter to increase or decrease it. Currently, the value jumps to where ever you click.


It may sound like I dislike this plugin, but that's not true. I'm just pointing out things that will avoid this being just another dynamic EQ that misses the mark.

All the best!

[MeldaProduction]

Another thing; it would be great if you had a new 'auto' setting for upsampling. Instead of me explaining it here, just look at any of the recent Voxengo plugins and you'll see what I mean. (In Global Settings you can choose the oversampling level to be used for offline renders)

Cheers,
Dax.

Hi Dax, well, personally I'm against it, example:
You tweak an eq without upsampling. Then you render it and
1) The plugin has latency with upsampling. The host may or may not update it (hopefully it does, but who knows)
2) Most importantly the eq would sound different!! Create a peak filter with default Q at 15kHz, then enable upsampling and see what I mean!

Upsampling is ONLY if you really need it and you know you need it! If you don't hear it working, do NOT use it. Despite our upsampling very very good, it is still a filter - it changes the sound somehow even if the eq itself would work the same (most of all it causes preringing, especially next to cutoff frequencies of the LP filters, which are at about 22kHz, not really important, but it is still there...).

[MeldaProduction]

Wow, the harmonics feature is GREAT! Very well implemented too, with the harmonics selectors (though they should be labelled as some people might not realise they're not just pretty green dots )

Thank you

-More user interface stuff; the 'Advanced Dynamic Settings' window should be attached to the 'Band x settings' window, or at the very least it should show the band number.

Good point! But what you mean by "attached" to the settings?

-Also, not being able to adjust parameters on the main window and keep the 'Band x settings' window open is a nuisance, especially since it's very common to want to adjust threshold and ratio ("ratio") at the same time. VST plugins support a changeable window size (as seen in Slate VCC). I would like to press a button to make the 'Band x settings' panel pop out and another button to make the 'Advanced Dynamic Settings' panel pop out from that.

Not possible, we have resizable windows - just drag the bottom right corner for example - that kinda excludes this. Anyway, what parameters you need to change this way? It is intentionally designed, so that you can manipulate most parameters from the main window, and all of them from the band settings window.

-Dynamics should be renamed to "Dynamic Gain"

Well yes, but there's a slight problem - no space ... It must stay like this I'm afraid.

-I would really like to be able to audition the band's sidechain (and difference) from the main window.

The sidechain monitor is available from the advanced settings (Ctrl+rclick on band, or rclick on the icon in the band list). I'd like to keep the main window as simple as possible. It is already more complicated than I expected. Moreover you can use Autolisten on the main screen.

[MeldaProduction]

Yeah, the way the extra windows close all the time is kinda annoying. Add to that having to open one popup from another popup.

I have to say that the Advanced Dynamics window is not very usable. I mean, I think I could probably get some work done with this plugin, but there would be a lot of messing around to get the desired effect. For starters the X and Y axes are not even labelled as to what they are. I guess it was a kind of transfer graph allowing ratio and knee editing in one window?

Well, first, the advanced window settings are ultra scientific, so most people won't need to touch it, that's why it is so hidden. You can show it by right clicking the icon in the band editor (or ctrl+rclick on the band itself), so directly from the main window.
These features are for tweakers. The labels in the custom graph do not have correct units, because the units depend on current settings. It is a transformation of the input level. Technically you do NOT need units here. If you need to use this, it means your ears are very good , so you should follow them .

Also, the EQ band auditioning doesn't seem to match the result. How is this implemented?

Which do you mean? Autolisten or band monitor in the advanced settings.

Is there a way to set the parameter sliders to non-absolute? I would like the precision of being able to click and drag on a parameter to increase or decrease it. Currently, the value jumps to where ever you click.

You can use middle button, ctrl + left button, mouse wheel, keyboard arrows, maybe something more. Put your mouse cursor over a slider and click F1 to get more information.

It may sound like I dislike this plugin, but that's not true. I'm just pointing out things that will avoid this being just another dynamic EQ that misses the mark.

All the best!

Sure! There is no improvement without criticism. In fact this topic has already improved the plugin quite a bit .

[daxliniere]

Anyway, what parameters you need to change this way? It is intentionally designed, so that you can manipulate most parameters from the main window, and all of them from the band settings window.

Hi Vojtech,
This phrase and your earlier comments about not understanding ratio control makes me think this tool is not aimed at audio professionals, but people who don't know how to control a compressor. (It's really not that hard) My occupation is an audio engineer and producer. I have beta tested for countless major companies and one of my specialities is user interface.

Having the threshold and 'ratio' on separate pages (which close when you click on the threshold) is like having the brake pedal on one side of the car and the clutch pedal on the other side.

I would be interested to see where this plugin ends up, though.

All the best,

[MeldaProduction]

Hi Vojtech,
This phrase and your earlier comments about not understanding ratio control makes me think this tool is not aimed at audio professionals, but people who don't know how to control a compressor. (It's really not that hard) My occupation is an audio engineer and producer. I have beta tested for countless major companies and one of my specialities is user interface.

Having the threshold and 'ratio' on separate pages (which close when you click on the threshold) is like having the brake pedal on one side of the car and the clutch pedal on the other side.

I would be interested to see where this plugin ends up, though.

All the best,

Ok noted, but this is NOT true!
First of all, saying that without ratio parameter the plugin is not for audio professionals is rather offensive, honestly. If someone would come up with a "perfect" solution for dynamic range compression, which wouldn't have ratio however, would you discard it as well? The idea here is about making things at least as powerful as before, but easier to use.

And second, there is NO ratio, because there is the dynamic gain! You as the audio professional know that ratio controls how output gain relates to input level. And that's exacly what the dynamic gain does! You may not be used to it, but it is definitely easier to understand and use. The meaning of ratio control in a dynamic equalizer is rather weird anyway, because we are working with bands. With ratio it would mean "put the band to 0dB and set the ratio, because we want to adjust the dynamic range for the spectrum the band affects somehow", and hey, that's a multiband compressor. And if you want to equalize it somehow, put an equalizer after it.
So it is much better to control "how much are you willing to change the gain" IMHO.

And the dynamic gain and threshold are both on the main page .

I think you are just not used to the concept, but at the end it is more effective than thinking about ratios.

[daxliniere]

Ok noted, but this is NOT true!
First of all, saying that without ratio parameter the plugin is not for audio professionals is rather offensive, honestly. If someone would come up with a "perfect" solution for dynamic range compression, which wouldn't have ratio however, would you discard it as well?

As a matter of fact, no, I wouldn't. When I saw Courvoisier, I was quite intrigued. It turns out that because of its control set, it's actually quite easy to get the desired result. I approached Tamas about some UI improvements and we're working on an updated version. (BTW, it's a broadband compressor not dynamic EQ or multiband comp)
So I am perfectly open to a new style of controlling a dynamic processor, but for me, having interdependent controls spread across multiple pages is not ergonomic.


All the best,
Dax.

[MeldaProduction]

Ok, Dax, but I must repeat myself - both threshold and dynamic gain (say ratio), and also attack and release are on the main screen.

Cheers!

[IIRs]

both threshold and dynamic gain (say ratio), and also attack and release are on the main screen.

And this is a big improvement.

The problem (and I still see it as one I'm afraid) is that the Dynamic Gain knob (which you now accept is Ratio in all but name) is limited to low ratio settings, unless you dive down 2 further editing levels and tweak a graph. I don't see how this is easier than providing a proper ratio control in the first place.

[MeldaProduction]

both threshold and dynamic gain (say ratio), and also attack and release are on the main screen.

And this is a big improvement.

The problem (and I still see it as one I'm afraid) is that the Dynamic Gain knob (which you now accept is Ratio in all but name) is limited to low ratio settings, unless you dive down 2 further editing levels and tweak a graph. I don't see how this is easier than providing a proper ratio control in the first place.

Well, that's a question, but it is easier to understand as it clearly says "the gain won't increase/decrease more than by xxx dB". Anyway, for my curiosity - how would you define "ratio" here?

[IIRs]

The meaning of ratio control in a dynamic equalizer is rather weird anyway, because we are working with bands.

Nonsense. It makes no difference whether you are manipulating the dynamics of the full frequency range, a band of frequencies as in a multi-band comp, or one specific frequency with a dynamic EQ. The Concept of Ratio applies just as well in all these scenarios.

With ratio it would mean "put the band to 0dB and set the ratio, because we want to adjust the dynamic range for the spectrum the band affects somehow", and hey, that's a multiband compressor. And if you want to equalize it somehow, put an equalizer after it.

Yes we want to adjust the dynamic range for the spectrum the band affects. Its a dynamic equaliser, that's what it does! And no, this really isn't the same as a multiband comp, with or without static EQ.