Curious for those that play with modular components, how close could one get to ACE with real life hardware (understanding polyphony would likely be lost).
That's right someone dared to ask the question.. Can I emulate this software in hardware?
ACE in hardware
-
- KVRAF
- 13135 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California
It can do pretty much anything ACE can do... except polyphony. 
-
- KVRAF
- 13135 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California
Actually that's not true... I can setup a four voice poly patch (1 VCO, 1 VCF, 1 VCA, 1 LFO and 1 Envelope per voice) but it's a huge pain in the ass to set up.
-
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 657 posts since 2 May, 2002 from Kalispell, MT
I figured if I would only get 1 response it would probably have been you Justin. I guess more precisely, I would be curious if there are modules out there that I could do it more minimally (also assuming without the default routing). Like, could one build a modular rack that more or less looks and functions like ACE.
I guess at the core of what I'm getting at, I have been contemplating hardware (even DIY modules) and love how simple and complex ACE can be. I would love something that would get me in the same ballpark of gratification. I know that Urs designs his filters and oscillators using real world synths as reference but I'm not sure how well that would translate back into hardware. Would there for example be a filter that would give you the same kind of options (I could swear I've seen hardware filters that offer multiple types in one module).
I guess at the core of what I'm getting at, I have been contemplating hardware (even DIY modules) and love how simple and complex ACE can be. I would love something that would get me in the same ballpark of gratification. I know that Urs designs his filters and oscillators using real world synths as reference but I'm not sure how well that would translate back into hardware. Would there for example be a filter that would give you the same kind of options (I could swear I've seen hardware filters that offer multiple types in one module).
-
- KVRAF
- 13135 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California
Building a synth with the same features as ACE would not be difficult. A 6u (thats two rows in Eurorack or Frac modulars) case could easilly fit 4 oscillators (each with LFO/audio rate modes), 2 multimode filters, 2 ADSRs, a sample and hold, a noise generator, an octave divider, a ringmod, 2 VCAs, 3 Mixers and even a stereo FX section. However, the functionality won't be exactly the same.
The biggest issue here is polyphony. With current modules, the only way to get a true stereo signal path or multiple voices, is to have multiples of each module. TipTop audio has announced development of a true polyphonic modular system but that may be a ways off.
Analog modulars are a lot of fun but they have some limitations. I like the fact that Urs chose to include some of those limitations (inputs can't sum, etc) but kept some things that are unique to soft synths (the mod mapper, stable oscillators, etc). ACE and Bazille are actually great for learning signal flow of modular synths and I use them to prototype sounds all the time. Using hardware is a different experience though.
Now is a good time to get into hardware modulars. Look into the Doepfer Dark Energy, it's a surprisingly capable synth. If you like that and want more options, it's easy to expand from there.
The biggest issue here is polyphony. With current modules, the only way to get a true stereo signal path or multiple voices, is to have multiples of each module. TipTop audio has announced development of a true polyphonic modular system but that may be a ways off.
Analog modulars are a lot of fun but they have some limitations. I like the fact that Urs chose to include some of those limitations (inputs can't sum, etc) but kept some things that are unique to soft synths (the mod mapper, stable oscillators, etc). ACE and Bazille are actually great for learning signal flow of modular synths and I use them to prototype sounds all the time. Using hardware is a different experience though.
Now is a good time to get into hardware modulars. Look into the Doepfer Dark Energy, it's a surprisingly capable synth. If you like that and want more options, it's easy to expand from there.
Last edited by justin3am on Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- KVRist
- 424 posts since 12 Oct, 2009 from London, UK
I hope I didn't dream this but I remember Urs saying something about the development of a controller for ACE sometime in the future.
Edit: here it is, 3rd last post on page 1: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... controller
Edit: here it is, 3rd last post on page 1: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... controller
Deep N' Dusty House Grooves !!!
Artist: http://soundcloud.com/nigel
Label: http://soundcloud.com/diplopiarecords
Artist: http://soundcloud.com/nigel
Label: http://soundcloud.com/diplopiarecords
-
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 657 posts since 2 May, 2002 from Kalispell, MT
That looks pretty cool for sure. I know there's another guy that builds hardware front ends to VSTs that is supposed to be working on one for ACE as well.Nig wrote:I hope I didn't dream this but I remember Urs saying something about the development of a controller for ACE sometime in the future.
Edit: here it is, 3rd last post on page 1: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... controller
-
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 657 posts since 2 May, 2002 from Kalispell, MT
Thanks for all that info Justin. I love playing around with ACE and Bazille (and the Madrona synth) and they have been driving my desire to go a little more hands on. I wasn't expecting anything like poly or extensive sequencing in a modular. Mostly I wanted the simplicity and the sound. I've even been stalking on the muff wigglers forum but jeez those guys go way too deep.justin3am wrote:Building a synth with the same features as ACE would not be difficult. A 6u (thats two rows in Eurorack or Frac modulars) case could easilly fit 4 oscillators (each with LFO/audio rate modes), 2 multimode filters, 2 ADSRs, a sample and hold, a noise generator, an octave divider, a ringmod, 2 VCAs, 3 Mixers and even a stereo FX section. However, the functionality won't be exactly the same.
The biggest issue here is polyphony. With current modules, the only way to get a true stereo signal path or multiple voices, is to have multiples of each module. TipTop audio has announced development of a true polyphonic modular system but that may be a ways off.
Analog modulars are a lot of fun but they have some limitations. I like the fact that Urs chose to include some of those limitations (inputs can't sum, etc) but kept some things that are unique to soft synths (the mod mapper, stable oscillators, etc). ACE and Bazille are actually great for learning signal flow of modular synths and I use them to prototype sounds all the time. Using hardware is a different experience though.
Now is a good time to get into hardware modulars. Look into the Doepfer Dark Energy, it's a surprisingly capable synth. If you like that and want more options, it's easy to expand from there.
-
- u-he
- 30221 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Well, I think one of ACE's great strengths is the Mapping Generator. That one should be hard to come by.
Then of course LFO1 is strictly digital, a sine oscillator with phase control. Also difficult in the analogue world.
Everything else is merely a piece of cake - apart from aforementioned polyphony.
On the other hand side, I'd still be dreaming of a *digital* hardware ACE. We're putting a lot of effort into MIDI controls at the moment, specifically for a small (universal) hardware controller (8+1 knobs and loads of options) that's coming to market soon. With the new MIDI control paradigms I think we do open the possibility of a hardware controller.
However, we're still pretty much putting 95% of our time into Diva.
Cheers,
Urs
Then of course LFO1 is strictly digital, a sine oscillator with phase control. Also difficult in the analogue world.
Everything else is merely a piece of cake - apart from aforementioned polyphony.
On the other hand side, I'd still be dreaming of a *digital* hardware ACE. We're putting a lot of effort into MIDI controls at the moment, specifically for a small (universal) hardware controller (8+1 knobs and loads of options) that's coming to market soon. With the new MIDI control paradigms I think we do open the possibility of a hardware controller.
However, we're still pretty much putting 95% of our time into Diva.
Cheers,
Urs
-
- KVRAF
- 16801 posts since 13 Oct, 2009
...