u-he

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:24 pm

OK just got iPad 2 Lemur and it has a 4 XY pad template (with bouncy balls) so I thought it would be great to map to Zebra's 4 XY pads but I'm not having much luck - I can get one XY to map to either the X or the Y axis for each pad but not to both at the same time which is what is needed for this to work. Is there any way to do this?

xh3rv · Post by **xh3rv** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:41 pm

Are you trying to map from Zebra's pads or from the individual knobs in the XY assignment sub-pane? (Hope this isn't a dumb question)

[e] No experience with Lemur but most of these apps have interface editors, for example it's possible w/ TouchOSC to have a page of single knobs for assigning with duplicate assignments for the TouchOSC pads, if that's where the problem is

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:43 pm

Just using rightclick learn on the pads

xh3rv · Post by **xh3rv** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:50 pm

aMUSEd wrote:Just using rightclick learn on the pads

I've always used the knobs, I think the way the UI is structured they refer to the exact same element underneath the GUI so there's no difference in the behavior of Zebra either way. I've never had any problem doing that ... TBH I don't use the MIDI learn right click menu though, I always go through host.
(Don't right-click menu mappings disappear with new instances?)

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:53 pm

xh3rv wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:Just using rightclick learn on the pads
I've always used the knobs, I think the way the UI is structured they refer to the exact same element underneath the GUI so there's no difference in the behavior of Zebra either way. I've never had any problem doing that ... TBH I don't use the MIDI learn right click menu though, I always go through host.
(Don't right-click menu mappings disappear with new instances?)

Don't know - I'm used to using Kore which makes this so simple. But surely if it's an XY it should be possible to map both axes at once?

xh3rv · Post by **xh3rv** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:09 pm

aMUSEd wrote:But surely if it's an XY it should be possible to map both axes at once?

I would guess the difficulty would be at a pretty low level - it's two CCs mapped to two axes, but in which order? From a design standpoint I would imagine it's hard to expect the user to physically manipulate a mouse or a touchpad or some kind of 2d surface control perfectly horizontal or perfectly vertical, so it's sort of random which parameter would fly in first regardless of what a user intended.

Can think of 10 ways to sort of solve for this but ... the really discrete one CC -> one axis is perhaps not the most magical but pretty robust. It's also easy to implement with no further complications or dependencies on other hardware or software standards or implementations programmatically.

I think a lot of these things could be solved by a really, really OSC-enabled host /shrug. I know I've ranted about MIDI on this forum a few times

[e: Not sure but I think the VST/AU standards are mostly capable here already]

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:14 pm

Well I just tried to do the same thing in Kinisis which has similar XYs and it worked there so it's not a midi limitation - either I'm doing something wrong (most likely) or Zebra is not set up that way (but I find that hard to believe)

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:45 pm

What's probably happening is when you do midi-learn in zebra and touch the lemur it's sending out 2 CC numbers (X and Y). Zebra will learn the first CC it sees for that value and if that CC is used elsewhere it will unlearn it. So you say "learn x" and send both X,Y, it picks one. then you do "learn y" and send both X,Y and it picks the same one, unlearns X and re-arms it to Y.

If you can send out one Axis then try doing that. Or use a different controller (or software like ReaControlMIDI) to send the CC values one at a time, with the same numbers being used by the lemur.

Last option is to manually edit the midi learn file to see/change the mappings.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:57 pm

bmrzycki wrote:What's probably happening is when you do midi-learn in zebra and touch the lemur it's sending out 2 CC numbers (X and Y). Zebra will learn the first CC it sees for that value and if that CC is used elsewhere it will unlearn it. So you say "learn x" and send both X,Y, it picks one. then you do "learn y" and send both X,Y and it picks the same one, unlearns X and re-arms it to Y.

If you can send out one Axis then try doing that. Or use a different controller (or software like ReaControlMIDI) to send the CC values one at a time, with the same numbers being used by the lemur.

Last option is to manually edit the midi learn file to see/change the mappings.

I change a knob on my midi controller (Korg Z1) to output the same as Y axis and 'learn' the second direction that way...

Editing the midi learn file is likely even easier

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:11 pm

MIDI controllers with X/Y pads should always have axis mute buttons!

I built some utilities in Numerology and M4L to filter out certain MIDI CCs because I use the X/Y pads on my Kaoss pad, V-Synth and in touchOSC a lot.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:58 pm

justin3am wrote:MIDI controllers with X/Y pads should always have axis mute buttons!
I built some utilities in Numerology and M4L to filter out certain MIDI CCs because I use the X/Y pads on my Kaoss pad, V-Synth and in touchOSC a lot.

It turns out the Lemur does - I can lock it to one or the other axis and then it sets up fine - just had 4 bouncing XY's going. Only problem seems to be my wifi connection now. I think I need a physical connection

u-he

KVR Audio

Mapping XYs to a controller in Zebra