M4 Test

[Bonteburg]

edit, user error - apparently there is no such a thing as ogg import as an audio file to begin with and there isn't such a function in M3, I just never took issue with it.


Hence, no need for improved file filters.

[liquidsound]

It would be great if the Tracks could be Target in the Modularb Area... That could be used for Midi input. Well, in theory.

[Trancit]

Does Mulab record MIDI output from a loaded VSTi? I still cannot figure out how to capture Jamstix 3 drum performance onto a track. This is in version 3 or 4.Cheers!

If that plugin has MIDI output I think it should. You just have to rout the MIDI output to a track. Put the plugin in the modular area, drag "cables" from the blue "event outputs" and put those to a track... I think.

I don't think it is possible...

In M3 you could only record midi from outside and not from internal sources and I didn't see anything on the What's new page, that this has changed...

In the session modular area, you can only route the event output to other racks (to trigger instruments in there) but not to tracks...

But I did a quick test with virtual midi ports... I use Maple VMC here...

Activate a virtual Midi In and Out (both same numbers, e.g. Maple Midi Input 1 and Maple Midi Output 1...the virtual output route it's signals direct to the input) from the virtual Midiport in the menu "MULAB > Midi Setup" page

...insert a midi output in the session modular area and route the event output 1 from the rack, which holds the VSTi whose output you want to record, to the created midi output

...doubbleclick the midi output module to set the output device
... set the focus to the track on which you want to record and hit the record button
...stop...name the recorded sequence and the recorded content should appear...

It's working here...

[Trancit]

Some specific replies:

* Some time ago i already requested and received the REX SDK from Propellerheads, so that's also a matter of time to add it.

* I have already checked many options wrt timestretching and thought about how to integrate it in MuLab. Already did some initial research.

That sounds both like music in my ears...

* Lack of synthesis features? Sure M4's modular sound engine is not yet complete (Is Reaktor perfect?), we can always think of more modules and more parameters, but allow me to highlight all the new modular synth goodies of M4!

Please don't misunderstand me here...I am very happy with the possibilities the new modular engine offers...I requested only a few special ones, which "normally" are "standard" in synths...

* MuDrum multi out: Please give me a concrete example where you can't make a full mix within the MuDrum. I will be amazed. And even then: You even can make your own MuDrum-like MUX and there you have all modular freedom you can imagine!

Nevermind...even if I can name here many situations I cannot live with one Mudrum for my drums on it's own...I totally forgot about the MuPad device and the new Multiouts in the MUX...problem solved...

Trancit, i did not say i want to concentrate on the fun aspect, did i?
I said, in all openess, that i also take that 'fun' aspect serious!
Maybe the words 'fun' and 'toy' are not the best words because they may lack respect for all the deepnes MuLab already has.
Maybe it's just about sweet easiness for power users and beginners.

Sorry, I think I misunderstood you there...

Now if you doubt about my commitment towards power features, please (re)read the M4 What's New page at http://www.mutools.com/m4-info.html

That was a very good advice... I only read it once the first beta were available and have to admit, I forgot about 90%...

I think that most of the items on that list are a great step forward towards power users like you. Especially the seriously evolved modular sound engine, which is a BIG step forward compared to M3.
Many things that were on the wishlist before now have been implemented. And like every app, M4 is not yet 'complete', we can always dream of more. More to come, multi-core on top.

Looking foreward to this...meanwhile will further explore the new features...

But I already know this: I don't understand about the half of the named points in the What's New list...be aware of many many questions...

[Trancit]

But I already know this: I don't understand about the half of the named points in the What's New list...be aware of many many questions...

And here are the first ones:

- What is the constant modulator good for...I cannot imagine a situation for using it...

- Racks now have direct parameters to its Gain, Stereo Pan, Stereo Width and Mute...wasn't that the same before...I don't understand that...

- Tracks and parts now evaluate the target channel apart from the target module...can someone please explain this further???

- Improved the "Modify Time/Length/Value 1/Value 2/..." sequence functions...
What's improved here other than the name???

- String valuators: double-click = select all, cfr standard behaviour in most software... what does this mean???

- FolderBrowser shows big icons...whats the folder browser???

- Oscillators: You can drag-drop a wave file onto the display...
I tried this, but the result was unusable and sounded completely different than the original sample...How shall this work???

- Rack Sends popup menu now also include 'Copy As Parameter Event'
Where do I find this, and what does it do???

- Improved VST engine...any details here???

- Inline Sample Browser: You can step thru the samples in a folder while the music is playing and using the selected sample. For example: choose a snare drum sample while the drum pattern is playing it...
What is the inline sample browser???

Edited: One more...where is the "hide" possibility of windows gone??? In M3 there was the ability to hide open windows...

So far...thx

[xybre]

Holy crap its deep. It's all deceptive and stuff, looking all simple like that, but it's like falling down the rabbit hole.

A glimpse of the modularity can be seen if you for example click on the arrow next to the Smooth Bass slot in the Mixer Rack and then when the module appears select the Option Menu on the top right near the number "Zero" and select "Show Deep Editor" and then in the editor double click the the Poly Synth Icon... there you are. There is also a Modular Area at the end of the Session Menu to explore...

Yeah I discovered those. Pretty cool. It's like bidule embeded in a sequencer.

And I figured out the pencil thing, but the pencil icon isn't different enough from the cursor, so I don't notice and I end up dragging a not out, or conversely moving it around when I meant to extend it.

[MuTools]

Sorry for the n00b question.
Did the option of "set target module per parts" disappeared or I just can't find it ?

Also, having a pop-up display saying "2.34 DB" Like in M3 to me is better than a long thing like "Gain = 2.34 DB".

The target module is always defined by the tracks.
This is done by drag-dropping a module (eg a rack) onto one of the track panels at the left side of the composer.
Untargetted tracks should not play anything. (else it's a bug)

If you really want to have different sounds on a single track, you can do this by using different MIDI channels for the parts, or even on event level.
Then the target module must be multi-timbral of course.
Or you can also use a MUX with a channel splitter to route each MIDI channel to another synth module.

Hope i explain well, else let me know.

[MuTools]

- What is the constant modulator good for...I cannot imagine a situation for using it...

It generates a constant modulation out value.
Sometimes it's handy in creating patches.
For example, it can be used to map aftertouch to modulation.

Racks now have direct parameters to its Gain, Stereo Pan, Stereo Width and Mute...wasn't that the same before...I don't understand that...

In M3 you had to target the rack's mixerstrip in order to automate its volume, panning, ...

In M4 you can more simply target the track itself to automate these parameters.
This is easier. Targetting the mixerstrip still works.

- Tracks and parts now evaluate the target channel apart from the target module...can someone please explain this further???

The target for parts is always defined by the track.
But independent from that, you can give each part another midi channel, if you want. Therefore the track MIDI channel is set to "None", now you can set a MIDI channel for each part on that track. If you set the part MIDI channel to None then you can give each event in that part another MIDI channel.

Improved the "Modify Time/Length/Value 1/Value 2/..." sequence functions...What's improved here other than the name???

I can't exactly remember at this point, that's implemented months ago, but it's about a clear improvement. I could look it up, but should i spend that time, with so much on the wish list? I'll try to make the change log files detailed enough in the future. Sorry for not being clear enough.

String valuators: double-click = select all, cfr standard behaviour in most software... what does this mean???

Double click a string (eg edit sequence name) and you'll see what i mean.

- FolderBrowser shows big icons...whats the folder browser???

File browser i meant; It's when you add a sample, open a session etc...

- Oscillators: You can drag-drop a wave file onto the display...
I tried this, but the result was unusable and sounded completely different than the original sample...How shall this work???

The wave file is converted into a waveform.
It's not about playing a sample, we have the (multi)sample player for that.

- Rack Sends popup menu now also include 'Copy As Parameter Event'
Where do I find this, and what does it do???

Right-click a rack send knob.
Copying a parameter as a parameter event onto the clipboard alows you to paste it in a sequence. This is handy to create certain specific automation values without the need for recording, which is less handy to create such single events.

- Improved VST engine...any details here???

Same as before, forgot the details, will do my best to make the logs more detailed in the future.

- Inline Sample Browser: You can step thru the samples in a folder while the music is playing and using the selected sample. For example: choose a snare drum sample while the drum pattern is playing it...
What is the inline sample browser???

See MuSampla, at the right of the sample name there are two scoll buttons which step to the next/previous sample on disk.

MuSampla is used two times in MuPad.
MuPad is used 12 times in MuDrum.

So this applies to MuSampla, MuPad, MuDrum, but also to the basic Sample Player module.

(the 'previous' button currently only works within a folder, improving that is still on the todo list)

Edited: One more...where is the "hide" possibility of windows gone??? In M3 there was the ability to hide open windows...

It's still there.

[Trancit]

Edited: One more...where is the "hide" possibility of windows gone??? In M3 there was the ability to hide open windows...

It's still there.

Not for the session modular area:

I could look it up, but should i spend that time, with so much on the wish list?

Of course NOT

[MuTools]

No you're right, i (temporarily) removed it for the session modular area because there was an issue when hiding the SMA. Of course that should be solved, will do, but as it's not about a quick fix, i postponed that fix in favor of other things. It's on the todo list. I also relate this to Digit's post http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 78#4763478
I'll come back on this asap.

I'm going to invest some time to do some initial multi-core experiments because i think at this point it's too important to have some clue how much time it will take and which are the main challenges. I know i have been constructing things quite MC aware, so now i want to give it a first practical try...

[Trancit]

No you're right, i (temporarily) removed it for the session modular area because there was an issue when hiding the SMA. Of course that should be solved, will do, but as it's not about a quick fix, i postponed that fix in favor of other things. It's on the todo list. I also relate this to Digit's post http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 78#4763478
I'll come back on this asap.

Don't worry, I just wondered...it's not a dealbreaker

I'm going to invest some time to do some initial multi-core experiments because i think at this point it's too important to have some clue how much time it will take and which are the main challenges. I know i have been constructing things quite MC aware, so now i want to give it a first practical try...

[pljones]

Personally, I think M4 is stable and a huge improvement over M3 in terms of depth of functionality (if it does introduce some new quirks). I would be very (pleasantly) surprised if implementing multi-core didn't badly break many things.

So... 1 January 2012 for M4 release?

I'd even be tempted to resurrect the Luna name for multi-core test versions, to keep clear separation until it is stable. Unless it's immediately stable enough for general testing. (I've seen very few crash reports / severe bug reports in this thread... I'm half-expecting BSODs with initial multi-core versions... )

(I'm about to embark on a similar endeavour myself and I'm rather nervous, even though .Net is meant to make it trivial...)

[Trancit]

Jo,

a little question about the new LFOs and tempo sync...what does cpb means and how does this translate to "normal" values like 1 bar, 1 beat, 1/1, 1/2 ...???

I am not able to set accurate values, e.g. 1.00 (ending up with 1.01) and especially with temposynced stuff, I think this shouldn't be, should it?
I don't know, if a kind of snapping to correct values would be better for tempo sync...

[Trancit]

How do you set up the Super Modulator to get the horizontal grid lines (for tonal changes) like in the Preset: Bass Seq 2 (OSC).Mudulator ????

Is there a way to increase the grid to more octaves???

[MuTools]

Jo,

a little question about the new LFOs and tempo sync...what does cpb means

Cycles Per Beat.

and how does this translate to "normal" values like 1 bar, 1 beat, 1/1, 1/2 ...???
I am not able to set accurate values, e.g. 1.00 (ending up with 1.01) and especially with temposynced stuff, I think this shouldn't be, should it?
I don't know, if a kind of snapping to correct values would be better for tempo sync...

It's not snapped atm. (for reasons)
You can fine control any parameter value by holding [Ctrl].
That should bring you practically close enough to a 'snapped' value.