Low latency audio in Android 4 (Ice Cream Sandwich)

[Sascha Franck]

Well not really, the more extreme gaming needs require some extra grunt or hardware to be specifically added. low latency audio these days doesn't require anything particularly special at all, its seems more a matter of just doing things right as opposed to having to add any specific features.

Absolutely spot on. To get low latency audio, all it takes is a decent driver architecture.
Of course, if you also want to record audio, it'd require a more professional connector of whatever sorts than what you find in Android phones these days (another reason why iDevices are quite ahead, at least so far). The same probably goes for MIDI (but that could perhaps even be solved by the USB connector).
But low latency per se doesn't need anything like that.

- Sascha

[UltraJv]

My point being, if you want a device to do a job - buy one for that job. My midi controller is EMU Xboard 49. 16 REAL knobs, full size keys and built just for music. Yes you can use an ipad etc but its no substitue for the real thing. I can plug that into any Mac or PC, netbook or laptop no setup required and it works. My first synth had touch surface keys and was analogue - EDP Wasp from 1979 :

http://www.vintagesynth.com/misc/edp_wasp.php

I dont see idevices being ahead attall, just small and geek chic (The latest must have thing). If thats what you want cool I could go an about pre idevice tools like my Palm Tungsten T, almost 10 years old, colour touch screen, midi interface - still works but iguys dont like it because it was advanced and not made by Apple. Of course its not geek chic now

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4490

[Sascha Franck]

My point being, if you want a device to do a job - buy one for that job.

So, you think that computers have always been dedicated devices to produce music on?
In case you do, I'll let you in on a secret: In the very first place they have been devices to calculate, do whatever office stuff, etc. They have never been clearly dedicated to do just one job alone.
Now, why should that be any different with smartphones or tablets? Just because you are saying so?

If all people were like you, Steinberg would've never invented ASIO and Apple would've never thought about Core Audio.

What a limited mindset, really.

- SF

[UltraJv]

My point being, if you want a device to do a job - buy one for that job.

So, you think that computers have always been dedicated devices to produce music on?
In case you do, I'll let you in on a secret: In the very first place they have been devices to calculate, do whatever office stuff, etc. They have never been clearly dedicated to do just one job alone.
Now, why should that be any different with smartphones or tablets? Just because you are saying so?

If all people were like you, Steinberg would've never invented ASIO and Apple would've never thought about Core Audio.

What a limited mindset, really.

- SF

Quite the opposite actually. Limited is thinking that Apple is at the forefront, its not - larger touch screen, higher clock CPU than my 10 year old Palm is all. Hardly game changing. I have owned many such handheld devices including Psion Organiser over 20 years ago. so Im an old hand at the gadgets game, why limit yourself to thinking that one company is responsible? The iseries will end up gathering dust as many such things do when the next must have thing comes along. Been there, done that


The Compaq iPAQ - another gadget from 10 years ago, does the name sound familiar? Apple wernt even first with the naming scheme, iseries are just a small step in an evolution on the shoulders of many previous companies. Their marketing is of course excellent, which is why many believe that they started it all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPAQ

[Sascha Franck]

Quite the opposite actually. Limited is thinking that Apple is at the forefront, its not - larger touch screen, higher clock CPU than my 10 year old Palm is all. Hardly game changing. [...]

First off: It's not about Apple at all.
Then: All these touch devices, be it smartphones or tablets *are* game changing, you can say whatever you want. And regarding that, Apple is at the forefront. Again, you can say whatever you want (and I don't like that, either), that's a fact.

The Compaq iPAQ - another gadget from 10 years ago, does the name sound familiar? Apple wernt even first with the naming scheme, iseries are just a small step in an evolution on the shoulders of many previous companies. Their marketing is of course excellent, which is why many believe that they started it all

It *absolutely* doesn't matter who has been the first. All that matters is who has been the one to be successful. And that's got to be Apple (again, I don't like that either).

Apart from all that, this thread is about low latency under Android.

- Sascha

[polaris20]

My point being, if you want a device to do a job - buy one for that job. My midi controller is EMU Xboard 49. 16 REAL knobs, full size keys and built just for music. Yes you can use an ipad etc but its no substitue for the real thing. I can plug that into any Mac or PC, netbook or laptop no setup required and it works. My first synth had touch surface keys and was analogue - EDP Wasp from 1979 :

http://www.vintagesynth.com/misc/edp_wasp.php

I dont see idevices being ahead attall, just small and geek chic (The latest must have thing). If thats what you want cool I could go an about pre idevice tools like my Palm Tungsten T, almost 10 years old, colour touch screen, midi interface - still works but iguys dont like it because it was advanced and not made by Apple. Of course its not geek chic now

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4490

Until you disconnect yourself from the "iguys" and "fanboys" comments, you really can't be taken seriously. As has been said multiple times in this thread; it's not about it being an Apple thing, it's a mobile device thing. That would include Android if they just fixed their kernel to do proper low latency.

I had the old Palms too, and HP compacts before that. They're not even comparable to what iOS or Android can do.

Also, you can connect MIDI keyboards to mobile devices as well (specifically iOS, yes, but it would be possible in Android too).

It's a bit funny that you're making a statement about buying something specific to do a job, and then referring to something that does a ton of different jobs. Or maybe you didn't realize people use computers for more than just music?

[Evan]

Question: does this audio latency issue have any effect in using android for MIDI stuff? Can we get MIDI (or similar protocols) touch control with much lower latencies?

[Sascha Franck]

Question: does this audio latency issue have any effect in using android for MIDI stuff? Can we get MIDI (or similar protocols) touch control with much lower latencies?

What exactly would you want to control?
And then: Which transfer protocol do you plan to use? Wireless?

- Sascha

[Benutzername]

Question: does this audio latency issue have any effect in using android for MIDI stuff? Can we get MIDI (or similar protocols) touch control with much lower latencies?

If you use OSC then the latency only depends on the quality of the network connection. MIDI and audio are not involved in this protocol at all.

[Thunderchief]

Question: does this audio latency issue have any effect in using android for MIDI stuff? Can we get MIDI (or similar protocols) touch control with much lower latencies?

No it shouldn't do, I use touchDAW on my Android phone with no problems. so I don't see why a midi sequencer can't work. Of course whatever you want to sequence would have to support rtp midi, or have a custom interface. Another problem with android, no standard "dock" I guess usb should work for this, but no one has done it yet.

Simon.

[Evan]

What exactly would you want to control?
And then: Which transfer protocol do you plan to use? Wireless?

As I have not explored touch devices yet, I cannot answer specifically. The aim is to control a sequencer, it's mixer, plugins, and other live performance aspects of it. Still do not know the available protocols and possibilities.

As far as connectivity goes, I am guessing it's either bluetooth or Wifi. Whatever performs best and allows me a distance of around 5meters from the DAW.

[Thunderchief]

RTP midi works over wireless, I've not used bluetooth so I can't coment on that, but it works fine with very little latency, none that I can tell. however I don't use it for much more than a portable keyboard, and some DAW transport controls.

Check out TouchDAW in the market, there is a free version, and if you go to their website, instructions on how to set up RTP Midi.

Simon.

[Thunderchief]

Also download this:

http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/rtpMIDI.html

It's a free version of the RTP midi drivers you will need for windows, if you you're on OS-X you don't need them.

Simon.

[lion2]

Wired magazine claims that Android audio latency problem has been resolved. Here are two quotes from an article on Wired about AudioTool Sketch.

"Latency problems at the core of the Android OS (originally very real, and later exaggerated)... "

"Thankfully, Android's latency problem was resolved, and the upshot is surprisingly capable mobile apps including Audiotool Sketch."

Here is the article:
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2011/12/ ... music-app/

[toddhisattva]

Watching the videos accompanying the Wired article, I must wonder if the author knows what latency is. A little sequencer seems an unwieldy tool with which to measure latency. While it does seem responsive in the videos, responsivity is not equal to low latency, because the change you make only has to be ready at the time of playing, instead of as soon as possible.

And just because a one company decides to fund their own low-latency audio layer does not mean it's available to developers at large.

If We the Underfunded are still having to mess with Audio Flinger and whatnot compared to iOS's CoreAudio, "Latency problems at the core of the Android OS (originally very real, and later exaggerated)" is originally correct, and later bullshit.

The day I hear that Android has LV2 or something similar I will buy one. That is, after checking header files to make sure it's not just more fanboy noise!