Rhythmic ear training -- how do I go about it?

[poonna]

The recent ear training thread is a really useful one. But it also reminds me how bad I am as an aspiring musician.

One aspect of musical training that I find not being stressed enough is the rhythmic skill. I myself is particularly bad at this, and I desperately need to find a way to get it down.

I'm the vocalist of a band, and while my voice is OK'ish, I have a very bad sense of timing. I would enter at the wrong beats, especially ones that are upbeat, which I miss a lot. I often come in early or late, and go out too late to get the next word on time. I often sing the 16th where the 8th is expected (late by a 16th or something like that). When my tapping foot is in the air, everything goes fuzzy. I can only somewhat (still not very well) nail the timing at the exact time my foot hits the floor (the downbeat, that is).

I often lose my sense of where I am in a song -- especially at the break/instrumental part -- and then I get very nervous at getting back in at the right time, and miss the timing in the process. I lose sense of beats and bars easily.

To sum it up, I suck, totally. Yet I'm still there, as the front man, and I'm getting more and more depressed about it. Every time I'm going to perform I feel stressed, and when I miss it in the performance, I feel like hiding my face in the soil. I love performing, and I have to get this down. This has been a real mental hurdle for too long and I improve too slowly.

I heard of Jazz musician practicing beats on 2 and 4 or something like that. Not sure if something like that could help me. I wonder if anyone has any tips at all to practice this aspect of musicianship. Thanks!

[Ogg Vorbis]

Wait...you're performing? Sounds like your band isn't fit for human consumption yet. Best to camp in the garage for a while until you get some fundamentals under the band.

Meanwhile, there's rehearsal (what the band does when it gets together in the garage) and there's practice (that which each member does daily on their own).

For your own practice, perhaps you could work with the recordings of the songs until it is internalized completely. The recorded vocalist will be your "training wheels" until you start flying on your own.

Someone might say, "forget it, dude. You're just not musically talented." If that kind of discouraging message shows up (externally or internally) get angry (the inverse of depression) and practice harder!

Another thing I do is slow practice. I record a song into Logic and use the varispeed function to slow it down 40% to play along with it. This causes me to really make sure my mind and body is set prior to every entrance I need to make. This really helps solidify things for me - almost like magic.

But you ought to clear your performing schedule until 2013...don't get a reputation of being "the band that sucks."

[debra1rlo]

do you play an instrument? learning one would probably help you learn more about rhythm also.

[tapper mike]

Both make good points. Usually having an intrument background even if you don't play one in the band goes a long way. However trying to get your sea legs playing an instrument can take awhile

[jancivil]

sit out from your role as 'front man' and pick up a tambourine or something. you don't have to master any instrument, but If you don't know what time it is, you don't have much business having a band yet.

no offense, you know, just keep it real.

[poonna]

Thanks for all the valuable advice. Some might be a bit harsh, but I do understand. I do know I still have a long way to go yet. But if I just despair and keep on like this, I'll certainly get nowhere no matter how many years. That's why I want to know if there are practice methods you would recommend.

I might be exaggerating a bit about how bad I am. It's probably not that bad, but certainly not good. I do practice my voice and I have a vocal range that is higher than most people. That's why they still keep me as the vocalist, I guess. It really depresses me because no matter what my voice is like, I believe timing is much more important. Keyboardist playing a wrong note? Music can still keep going. Drummer skipping a beat? The music will just fall apart. (In that sense, I think a drummer is more of a musician than some other instrumentalists, despite all those drummer jokes.)

All the other band members are way, way better than I am. One is even at a national level. We are not a professional band, though. We are not even regular performers, just occasionally. All of us have a day job, but we still want to get our songs out there and perform sometimes.

I pick up the guitar sometimes, but my skill level is embarrassing. Music is what keeps me going. Performing gets my adrenaline rush. All of these constitute what my life goal is. It's depressing that I'm surrounded by those great people, yet I'm feeling guilty to even call myself a musician. Is vocalist even a musician? I want to be one of them, and I believe I do have something to offer. It's just that there's this one aspect that I'm not good at and I believe I can improve.

I don't know if you would understand this feeling. Maybe it doesn't matter. I still need to improve regardless. I need your advice. If there's a structured method, that would be great.

There are lots of courses that teach singing and train your voice. None of them put any effort in training your rhythm. Why is it so hard to find one that trains your sense of rhythm?

[tapper mike]

I know this sounds dumb.... Jump rope.

It's impossible to jump rope without a sense of rhythm. It puts your whole body into the rhythm and forces you to maintain it on your own. It also helps you maintain a sense of rhythm with your feet.

From there tap the tempo with your foot. Count it out. 1,2,3,4

If you can sing and count to four with your foot usually you become less concious of when to come in and you find yourself coming in on time.

[poonna]

What's funny is, coming in at the wrong time usually only happens when I focus on coming in at the right time. When I let my subconscious takes over, I come in at the right time. It's often that I'm too conscious, though.

Actually, I have more problem with subdivision smaller than a beat, like 1/8 or 1/16. When tapping, that's usually the time when my limb is in the air, without physical impacts to guide me. That's when the timing get much more fuzzy.

[shankfiddle]

Key word is SUBDIVIDE.

Actually, I have more problem with subdivision smaller than a beat, like 1/8 or 1/16. When tapping, that's usually the time when my limb is in the air, without physical impacts to guide me. That's when the timing get much more fuzzy.

You should be counting the whole time, not just when your foot hits the floor on the main beats: "1 2 3 4..." that would be called "not subdividing".

Count the eighth notes: "1+2+3+4+1..." when your foot is at its highest. This is called subdividing 8th notes

Also count 16th notes "1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a" subdividing 16ths. You don't have to tap your foot super-fast, just internalize the quick rhythm. Yoou are only tapping on the same major (numbered) beats but dividing up the time in your mind.

tappermike had a great idea with the jumprope. But jump rope AND subdivide! Practice jumping subdividing 8ths, 16ths, and even triplets if you can (will be tricky at first) and switching back and forth in your head.

know your structure and count rests. When you're not singing, you're not "doing nothing" you should know, "i have two bars and another minus a 16th pickup" and count through the time so you know the downbeat is coming instead of just trying to jump on the beat. In this situation, you could count:

"1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4" and then on the last bar when you know you have a pickup coming up, switch to smaller subdivisions. "1 + 2 + 3e+a4e+!" with the exclamation being your pickup. If you count like this, it is near impossible to miss your entrance.

Practice subdividing rhythms in everything, the music you listen to, jumprope, running/walking, sex, breathing, with practice it will become innate so you don't have to think about it at all.

[jancivil]

you are right, timting is the one thing that affects the result the most, the one thing that if it's absent is the most intolerable. not just the drummer, one person in the orchestra is off and everything sounds off.

I never had a problem with it, the first instrument I gained proficiency in was drums but I don't tap my foot all that well while playing leads I don't think. there are ways, but it involves approaching it from the drummer's perspective. listen to songs and copy the drum parts, bang it out on your thigh or something. with one hand keep the pulse and the other accentuate it, the snare beats say.

pick up a tambourine!

[Ogg Vorbis]

Key word is SUBDIVIDE.

I really agree with this. The trick, I think, is to MAKE it conscious. Don't be fooled by those who say, "don't think...just flow with it." After a while you won't have to think about it so directly, but it will still be there.

Counting this way isn't something that only beginners do. Subdividing mentally is a really great way to stay on target. It beats guessing.

[poonna]

Thanks all! I think I have a better idea now what I should do. And, yes, I'll pick up a rope and a tambourine (or a shaker)!

[Sascha Franck]

I can only second that you need to pick up some rhythmic instrument. Shakers and tambourines do well, but just doing alternate L/R strokes with your hands on your knees will do, too.

When it comes to rhythm, there's basically two things: Feeling it and knowing it. Without feeling it, you won't be able to continue. Hence, there's little sense in discussing on-, off- or whatever beats until you've got the feeling nailed. And easily the best way to get into the feeling is to get it into your body by moving whatever parts in a metronome like fashion.
So, if you really want to get over your problems, start with the following:
- Look out for some music that you like. It should be strictly no swing or shuffle grooves for the start!
- Turn the music up and stand up (yes, stand up!).
- Step quarter notes along with your feet. Depending on whether your left- or right-"feeted" (usually it's the same as with your hands), start with your strong foot.
- Do that until you really feel like being truly "in" the song.
- Now have a look for whatever subdivisions. 8th notes are good to start with, on faster tempos you may need to stick with them anyway.
- While you're still stepping quarter notes, start clapping 8th notes. Just normal claps.
- Just a little more advanced: Clap those 8th notes just as you step your feet, using L/R claps on whatever part of your body (chest, belly, breast, just find something that keeps your hands in a more or less comfortable position).

Ok, you *will* need to do that for a while. In addition, just have an evening in the disco and dance!

The excersize from above can be easily extended:
- While you strictly keep stepping in quarters and clapping in 8ths, look for one or two accents that you could integrate into your clapping. Typically, it'd be the best way to start with, say, beats 2 and 4. Think "snare drum". Once you have that nailed, proceed with an accent that is on an offbeat, say, beat "2 and". THE important think being that you NEVER stop stepping in quarters and clapping in 8ths! Never! Ever!
So, when you do the R/L hand thing for your 8th notes, with an accent on beat "2 and" your pattern should be like:
r - l - r - *L* - r - l - r - l
- Now get that shaker of yours out (fwiw, IMO a shaker is better than a tambourine, those little plastic eggs are cheap, do a nice job and won't offend your neighbours).
- Replace your handclaps with that shaker.

Proceed with different tempos and then probably 16th note subdivisions.

Note: You're not going to become a percussionist, but you will need to get that kind of stuff into your body once and forever. Music is almost exclusively about rhythm. All music is kept together by rhythm and time. You can easily train your hand or even your vocal chords to perform whatever note actions it takes, but without having a basic sense of rhythm deep inside your body, all that doesn't matter.

- Sascha

[poonna]

Wow, Sascha! Thanks so much for the elaborated practice idea. It makes so much sense and seems like a fun way to go about it.

[Hink]

what confuses me is the fact that you are asking to train you ears for rhythm, but it's really all about feel. I agree about some kind of instrument to practice with but without knowing what you are doing that could just make matters worse. I think I would get the midis of some of your favorite songs, load them into your host and turn on the click track then learn to count (how I remember the days of playing trumpet in the school band and having to count out rests).

Get a metronome (not one for your computer) and find sites like this to get the tempo and practice with a click track playing along with the songs you do and songs you like. When practicing with your ban put a mic in front of the metronome and paractice every song with a click track. This will benefit you and your band, if done proper it will probably piss you and your band off to no end until you get it right but if your band hasn't given you the boot (no offense) chances are they need work.

There is much reading online you can do about this as well, you can load drum patterns into a drum machine and turn on the click track and take note where the drums land, the kick on every beat for instance (straight beat songs) and the snare on the second and fourth (naturally a general example).

get a metronome...get a metronome and in case I didn't say it before, get a metronome, play to it, sing to it, breath to it, try to time commercials on tv ad songs to a metronome, try to time songs on the radio and oh, one other thing..get a metronome