u-he

Suntower · Post by **Suntower** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:24 am

Hi,

Likin' Zebra2 more and more. Howard's patches really do a good job of showing how things work. The videos are fantastic---wish I had time to watch 'em all!

So... this is another post in trying to learn how to use Zebra better by trying to emulate another synth.

I have an old copy of NI's 'Prophet' clone and one thing it really captures is how the filter on a real Prophet 5 could self-oscillate LOUD, without any input signal.

Can Zebra2 do this? If so, how? I've tried fooling with some patches and with the Resonance up to max it 'whistles' but it's kinda weak and I can't get it to do it without an input from a VCO.

I need suggestions, si vous plait.

TIA,

---JC

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:48 am

Use the XMF filter and a bit of output from a noise module to stimulate it

risome · Post by **risome** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:57 am

Suntower wrote:Hi,

Likin' Zebra2 more and more. Howard's patches really do a good job of showing how things work. The videos are fantastic---wish I had time to watch 'em all!

So... this is another post in trying to learn how to use Zebra better by trying to emulate another synth.

I have an old copy of NI's 'Prophet' clone and one thing it really captures is how the filter on a real Prophet 5 could self-oscillate LOUD, without any input signal.

Can Zebra2 do this? If so, how? I've tried fooling with some patches and with the Resonance up to max it 'whistles' but it's kinda weak and I can't get it to do it without an input from a VCO.

I need suggestions, si vous plait.

TIA,

---JC

Use an envelope to mess with the pitch

Suntower · Post by **Suntower** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:58 am

pdxindy wrote:Use the XMF filter and a bit of output from a noise module to stimulate it

Does the XMF filter require an input signal to do this? Are you saying use a noise module as the input to the filter?

Thanks,

---JC

xh3rv · Post by **xh3rv** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:05 am

Definitely try the 'click' parameter with the XMF filter. This adds a quick impulse to energize the filter when a voice begins. Self-oscillation is essentially what it's there for (doesn't have to be infinite, but that's perfectly legitimate option).

Something very close can be done with other filters by passing just the 'PreFill' from a comb module into them. This can be done by zeroing out every other parameter.

Using very short envelopes or MSEGs can generate impulses and much more from just about anything. For example, white noise isn't much of a jump from the clicky impulse method with a short envelope, but white noise with an attack and sustain can add texture after the transient from a click.

[e] All the filters in Zebra tune a lot like oscillators - maximum keyfollow tracks pitch perfectly, and 12 steps in cutoff equates to one octave.

mcnoone · Post by **mcnoone** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:40 am

One of the sounds from a Zebra patch competition has just that.
One XMF filter as a playable sound.
I believe it's in the one module only comp folder.
I forget the name atm.
Urs also had the same in the older Zebra presets.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:52 am

Suntower wrote:
pdxindy wrote:Use the XMF filter and a bit of output from a noise module to stimulate it
Does the XMF filter require an input signal to do this? Are you saying use a noise module as the input to the filter?

Thanks,

---JC

no, it doesn't require an input signal... you can use the click, but I like to use noise as an input cause you can use the filter fm to change the sound... also make sure to try the different modes and filter types...

wanna have some fun, send a self oscillating XMF into a second self oscillating XMF with filter fm...

Suntower · Post by **Suntower** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:53 am

Thanks gents. I gotta go study! Some great material here!

BTW: You guys are fast, Fast, FAST!

---JC

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:33 pm

I just tossed this sound together so it aint great, but it shows the potential of a self osc XMF into a self osc XMF and some filter FM... just for quick fun!

http://draigathar.org/sounds/Zeerezo.wav

No_Use · Post by **No_Use** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:59 pm

I know the OP's question is about Zebra, just wanted to mention that I also asked about self-oscillating filters some time ago, and apart from Zebra's XMF there were some other synths named there which can do it.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=244533

Suntower · Post by **Suntower** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:34 am

Thanks for all the suggestions. Very helpful.

Here is a before n' after kinda thing. The beginning is the Prophet example. The 2nd is the same phrase with my stab @ Zebra2. It's just a single 'path' with 2 saw VCOs and a Noise going into a VCF 'All Rounder'. There are no envelopes altering the filter.

http://jchmusic.com/downloads/zebra-prophet-test.mp3

It's -close- but the Prophet is still better because (I think) there is something about the filter which is a bit 'rounder' in the attack of each note. I see that Zebra has a zillion filter options and if someone has a suggestion on getting closer I would VERY MUCH APPRECIATE IT. (For example: the reason I wrote this post in the first place is because I hadn't tried some of the VCF modes---they -definitely- self-oscillate! I just hadn't tried the right flavour.)

I tried the XMF but it has this ring-mod quality that isn't what I was looking for. But it's great to finally mess with a lot of these things.

One other question: At several points by double-clicking I ended up routing a signal to -two- destinations, or disconnecting a connection on the same 'rail' but then not being able to re-connect it. What's the trick? Sometimes I could re-select with the pop-up (input or side-chain) but sometimes it wouldn't work. ESPECIALLY the side-chain. If it gets set? UN=setting was impossible. I would end up just removing the whole module and start over. Again: is there a trick or is this a bug?

THANKS AGAIN!

---JC[/url]

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:46 pm

Suntower wrote:I tried the XMF but it has this ring-mod quality that isn't what I was looking for.

Ring-mod quality? XMF is so flexible, I couldn't attribute any such "quality" to it!

At several points by double-clicking I ended up routing a signal to -two- destinations, or disconnecting a connection on the same 'rail' but then not being able to re-connect it. What's the trick?

No trick - it's just that you don't route from a source module to a destination module, you right-click a "destination" module and select a source lane... and you read the manual

Suntower · Post by **Suntower** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:23 pm

The 'ring mod' quality I think comes from the XMF in parallel mode with two cutoff freq... creates to peaks which to -me- certainly sound like sidebands from a ring mod---especially if the key follow isn't tracking 1v/oct.

AFA the routing. I did RTM and I still don't get it. I have had several cases where I got a signal routed to two lanes and I don't know how I got it there---or how to disconnect. I see a 'sidechain' checkbox, but no way to 'uncheck' it. FWIW: this reminds me a -lot- of the RME Matrix---a system that seems intuitive to some people and complete Greek to others (like me.) Any pointers would be much appreciated.

---JC

Howard wrote:
Suntower wrote:I tried the XMF but it has this ring-mod quality that isn't what I was looking for.
Ring-mod quality? XMF is so flexible, I couldn't attribute any such "quality" to it!
At several points by double-clicking I ended up routing a signal to -two- destinations, or disconnecting a connection on the same 'rail' but then not being able to re-connect it. What's the trick?
No trick - it's just that you don't route from a source module to a destination module, you right-click a "destination" module and select a source lane... and you read the manual

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:31 pm

Suntower wrote:The 'ring mod' quality I think comes from the XMF in parallel mode with two cutoff freq... creates to peaks which to -me- certainly sound like sidebands from a ring mod---especially if the key follow isn't tracking 1v/oct.

AFA the routing. I did RTM and I still don't get it. I have had several cases where I got a signal routed to two lanes and I don't know how I got it there---or how to disconnect. I see a 'sidechain' checkbox, but no way to 'uncheck' it. FWIW: this reminds me a -lot- of the RME Matrix---a system that seems intuitive to some people and complete Greek to others (like me.) Any pointers would be much appreciated.

You cannot turn off the sidechain lane in the XMF... but it is only for FM so if the filterFM knob is all down, it does nothing.

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:50 am

Suntower wrote:AFA the routing. I did RTM and I still don't get it. I have had several cases where I got a signal routed to two lanes...

But you don't route *to* lanes, you route *from* lanes (for any/all modules)! You can't have no routing at all, and that's why you can't uncheck it. You'll just have to read page 14 of the manual again (sorry!)

u-he

KVR Audio

Self-Oscillating Filter (a la Prophet)