u-he

trance_lucent · Post by **trance_lucent** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:50 am

Just to ensure if this problem exist on my machine only (using 2.5.3 AU).

Has anybody problem with negative value in HyperComb FX?

The thing is that for positive hypercomb value there is several signal copies with phase modulation which relies on the resolution parameter, but for negative hypercomb value the modulation always has zero speed independent on resolution. In fact, there is no modulation for negative hypercomb value, just non-modulated random phase offset.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:12 am

I just checked and it's meant like that.

HyperComb basically does what Supersaw does, but "burns" 4 copies of the waveform into the wavetable. Positive values have that auto drift (depends on Resolution), negative values are fixed waveform offsets that can be modulated.

Bronto Scorpio · Post by **Bronto Scorpio** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:54 am

Hypercomb is one of my favorite OscFX

Combine it with the Bandworks OscFX for the basis of a simple 1 osc reese bass

1 Osc Reese

Here is the patch: 1 Osc Reese

Cheers
Dennis

trance_lucent · Post by **trance_lucent** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:24 am

Urs wrote:I just checked and it's meant like that.
HyperComb basically does what Supersaw does, but "burns" 4 copies of the waveform into the wavetable. Positive values have that auto drift (depends on Resolution), negative values are fixed waveform offsets that can be modulated.

Ok, fine. If I remember correctly, manual says otherwise, but existing behaviour much more useful.

Bronto Scorpio, it seems that Hybercomb is one of my favorites too, it helps achieve unison-like sounds, but without big amplitude rippling because it is possible to restrict phase shifts by specified interval.

So you can set 2 oscillators, pan it to the left and right, apply hypercomb with some moderate value and max resolution, and achieve wide fat sound with relatively steady amplitude.

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:35 pm

trance_lucent wrote:[the zebra] manual says otherwise...

It looks to be a bit ambiguous in the manual:

Zebra Manual Page 24 wrote:HyperComb - Adds two (negative) or three (positive) copies of the original wave. The phases of these waves are randomly shifted, resulting in a subtle to dramatic effect similar to chorus. Even when not modulated, HyperComb is dependent on the value of oscillator Resolution.

I agree it would be useful if Urs' description was incorporated into the description in the manual. As if Howie doesn't have enough to do...

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:43 pm

I might have told Howie the wrong thing...

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:43 pm

Urs wrote:I might have told Howie the wrong thing...

Will be corrected in the next version of the manual. Thanks guys

VSTJuNkiE · Post by **VSTJuNkiE** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:25 am

Urs wrote:I might have told Howie the wrong thing...

Wait.... Your not perfect Urs...? Surely you jest Sir!

trance_lucent · Post by **trance_lucent** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:41 am

I want an addition to my previous post in this topic.

If I understand correctly, behaviour of HyperComb is similar to Virus unison? So this is possibility to create these Virus fat basses without low harmonics cancellation (cancellation occurs when usual detuning used, i. e.).

Of course, Hypercomb is a little less easy-to-use method than Virus unison (you loses one FX, also limit second by setting up resolution for Hypercomb and you must set up two oscillators for stereo), but this is a way that works already now without waiting for realization of mythical Urs'es unison planes.

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:38 pm

trance_lucent wrote:and you must set up two oscillators for stereo

I don't quite understand this statement. The Zebra oscillators are true stereo devices, as are the filters. If you want a fat bass just set the detune knob, switch to dual mode and adjust the width knob for stereo separation.

Or maybe you meant something different?

trance_lucent · Post by **trance_lucent** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:38 pm

bmrzycki wrote:If you want a fat bass just set the detune knob, switch to dual mode and adjust the width knob for stereo separation. Or maybe you meant something different?

Yes, I meant other thing.
Simple detuning stack of voices results in free phase running for each voices. I mean, voices are truly independent from each other. So there are many cases when, for example, first harmonic for one voice will cancel first harmonic for other voice, giving (sometimes desirable, sometimes not) phaseing effect and large amplidute ripples.

But if you use two oscillators (one left-panned and other right-panned) with locked phase start but with hypercomb, you can achieve the effect when phase cancellation occurs only for higher harmonics, resulting in more steady amplitude and less phasing efects. This sound sits in mix much better than usual detuned oscillators.

AFAIK Virus unison works the similar way. Or not?
And AFAIK Virus Hypersaw works exactly like Zebra osc stacking and detuning (with phase cancellation and other effects).

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:34 pm

Try switching on the reset button in Eleven mode - is that what you're looking for?

trance_lucent · Post by **trance_lucent** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:48 am

Howard wrote:Try switching on the reset button in Eleven mode - is that what you're looking for?

No, it leads to very unpleasant (for me) phasing effect. I meant other sound. I'll upload example patch as soon as reach home.

trance_lucent · Post by **trance_lucent** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:00 pm

As I promised, there are patches.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/57065234/Unisaw/Unisaw.h2p
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/57065234/Unisaw/Unisaw_LFO.h2p

Notes: My experiments show that two oscillators running Hypercomb use the same internal LFO for phasing copies. The same settings for resolution and HyperComb results in the equal sound for both oscillators, so it is need to set a little different HyperOsc and resolution settings for left and right oscillators. Also setting high value of Hypercomb leads to more phase cancellation, so it is need to keep HyperComb moderate and set higher resolution. As for me, Hypercomb's internal LFO runs too slow.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/57065234/Unisaw/unisaw.mp3

So If I want to run the things faster, I need Hypercomb manually modulated by usual LFO. It gives more "detuning" and less phase cancellation. Waveform looks like and sounds like Virus unison!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/57065234/Unisaw/unisaw_lfo.mp3

But there are two issues for manual modulating: only two additional signal copies (BTW, for automodulating I can see original signal plus 4 copies, not 3 as said in the manual) and strange LFO behaviour: In my experience LFO often resets every new note even if sync sets to "free". So basslines often consist of the same repeating bass sound.

Also there is standart eleven stacked saws for comparing:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/57065234/Unisaw/elevensaw.mp3

and image:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/57065234/Unisaw/Unisaw.jpg

Feature requests for Urs:

1. Please elaborate on HyperOsc: make unique internal LFO for different OSCs, faster LFO (resolution = 9 is not enough fast), possible panning according Osc's Width setting, and may be more copies at least for manual modulation.

Or:

2. Please implement good unison model, not this usual detuning crap (there is no need for it - Osc's multimodes works good) but something like HyperComb or Virus unison, so making solid sound would be easer than now (using 2 Oscs and 2 LFO).

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:27 am

@trance_lucent: Urs did say he wants to focus on Zebra2 when he gets back from his vacation. You could always bug him to add in his Roland Supersaw research from about 13 months ago...

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 25#4295625

u-he

KVR Audio

Zebra HyperComb bug?