Bitwig (!/?)

[Johnny!]

none of you know *anything* about what they have rights for and what not, so please just stop this clueless discussion. if they were breaking the law, they would probably already be sued by ableton dont you think?

[summer2000]

Judging solely on the released info, I think the Bitwig Studio has the potential to be a full fledged DAW in its own right.

I jumped off the Live bandwagon a year ago due to bugs and instability issues. Since then I've been shuffling back and forth between Reaper and Studio One. I can't settle with just one because each has much needed features the other lacks.

Assuming the Bitwig Studio will be stable upon release and work as advertised then it could very well replace Studio One and Reaper in my rig. I hope the software comes with easy to use mapping capabilities so I can freely use all the knobs, buttons and faders on my Openlabs Neko LX5 keyboard with it.

These are some of the BW Studio features that caught my interest:
- Multitrack recording
- Arranger- and Mixer-based clip launching
- Generic tracks - audio and MIDI notes can exist on the same track
- Clip automation
- Per-note automation
- Simultaneous multitrack editing
- Multiple audio events per clip
- Real-time timestretching
- Device nesting - devices can contain other devices and be saved as a preset
- Metadata-based browser - add tags and search content by type
- Open multiple documents - Drag/drop and copy/paste between projects
- Multi-monitor support

I signed up for beta testing. Hope I get picked among the first batch of testers.

[jens]

I see what your saying. Even though they had worked on coding for Live for years. Since they left and re-wrote their own code (which just happens to be similar with some improvements) then is is legal.

Got it

Exactly! They could really own the rights to some of the code they wrote for Ableton b.t.w. (but that would be unusual, I think).

If the legal situation was otherwise, no other software-company besides Steinberg would be allowed e.g. to use the standard sequencer-timeline we have all become so used to.

Like all the others, Ableton stole it from the Steinis - Cakewalk then stole the pattern-clips from Ableton. And everyone stole track freezing from RMS, just like they stole time-stretching from Sonic Foundry.

I think the Ableton/Bitwig situation is similar to the Steinberg/Presonus one. You can find a lot of similarities between Cubase and Studio One.

[sinkmusic]

For the most part I agree sinkmusic. However, I have to admit that I really like The fact that Simpler and Drum racks come stock in Live. Yet I hope that the wigs make a lot of that type stuff a la carte.

It could be maybe an option (just speculating) to have a more "fully-featured" DAW costing hundreds of bucks with samples, instruments & all, and a more affordable solution (read, in the Reaper/Ext/Renoise/FL) range costing less than one hundred $ ?

(Well, this said, the synth looks great, a bit like a mini-Helix )
... And i just noticed the modular view Great stuff. So, it is also a bit like Usine/Reaktor

[LawrenceF]

The legal stuff is silly (imo).

As far as I know there is no law that prohibits people from making new software that acts just like old software as long as they don't steal source code. The only criteria seems to be "Did you actually create it?" and "Did you use any technology that you had no legal right to use?".

If that was the case that kinda copying things directly was illegal, Open Office would be sued by Microsoft I think.

So yeah... afaik, if you can code that well you could make a new DAW named "Creeper" that looks and behaves pretty much exactly like Reaper, as long as you actually write it and don't steal Cockos code.

Reaper (IIRC) started off as pretty much a direct copy of Vegas.

[pwal]

full expected list price

Yeah some kind of intro deal would be expected.

nose-picking on the refined audiometrics thread earned a 40% discount off plpareq

[christianmusicmaker]

full expected list price

Yeah some kind of intro deal would be expected.

nose-picking on the refined audiometrics thread earned a 40% discount off plpareq

Then no discount will tempt me thanks.

[hibidy]

post explosion, what are they charging for this?

[FarleyCZ]

post explosion, what are they charging for this?

Nobody knows yet. I think that they tested interest by anouncing and will base price on what they see.

[hibidy]

post explosion, what are they charging for this?

Nobody knows yet. I think that they tested interest by anouncing and will base price on what they see.

Ah. Well, I signed up (even though I despise beta testing......probably won't get a spot anyways) so we'll see.

I miss live so this would be a nice alternative and it's x64.

Geeeeeezzz, I hope they optimize cpu use

[LawrenceF]

Given that it's brand new and they don't seem to have any way to "incentiv-ize" it with hardware bundles or something... I'd think $300 would probably be a reasonable upper limit.

I'd be surprised if it listed for more than that.

[FarleyCZ]

I still hope at even lower prices. Ableton is too spread in professional industry, that they need to adress this to the hobbyists (or at leas I hope in it ), who can't give 200 or 300 buck right away... :/

[headquest]

The big question is, I think, why would people buy this in preference to Ableton Live, which is established the world over as the leading performance software used by everyone from bedroom musicians to international acts. I'm sure there are a bunch of potential reasons, which could include (and please add yours...) :

1) Ableton screw up... (two years ago Bitwig had a golden opportunity here, but Live 8 did eventually settle down for at least most users)

2) Bitwig bring a killer feature to the table that Ableton didn't think of already (there equivalent to Studio One adding the Melodynne thing)

3) Bitwig charge a far lower price than Ableton (could backfire though, as with Reaper, as some percieve lower price = lower quality)

In terms of 1) Ableton need to bring Live 9 to the table fast, and it needs to grab serious headlines.

In terms of 2) the online collab thing could be a big deal if Bitwig can successfully rival the feautres of both OHM Studio and Live in one application.

I'm quite suprised there is no mention of iPads, etc

[UncleAge]

The legal stuff is silly (imo).

As far as I know there is no law that prohibits people from making new software that acts just like old software as long as they don't steal source code.

I think the thing that most folk might be overlooking is that they probably wouldn't want to use any of the old code. I think many a programmer have looked back on a mature project and thought about how they could have done differently and more efficiently. It's just not cost effective to do so most of the time.

[LawrenceF]

I still hope at even lower prices. Ableton is too spread in professional industry, that they need to adress this to the hobbyists (or at leas I hope in it ), who can't give 200 or 300 buck right away... :/

Dunno. If it works as advertised and has really usable instruments ... (Reaper pricing aside of course) ... $300 is really about the bottom line price for a subjectively "fully professional" commercial DAW. And no, Mixcraft isn't a fully professional commercial DAW ... yet anyway.

Maybe they'll do like Ableton and others and also have a "light" version, dunno.

But I'd be a little surprised if it "lists" at $149 or $179 given the feature list and the look... but then again, a not uncommon practice in sales is to list high and actually sell a bit lower so people feel like they're getting a deal when Sweetwater does a strike through graphic on the "list price".

So it might list at $349 and sell at $249, who knows.