Bitwig (!/?)

[felonytrance]

that Ableton will (as it looks) finally have some competitor can only be a good news.

I just hope it'll be good enough for live acts so I could buy it instead of Live upgrade, also the introductory price up to $100 would be really welcome and actually pretty much logical as this is completely new product and although a few of us might be excited about it, when it comes to actually spending some money a serious thought will certainly take place.

that said, if the intro price will be no more than $100 i'll probably buy it right away.

I would say there is no chance for that sort of price...

That could very well be their niche. I mean, the market for overpriced music software is really fed up, don't you think?

Ableton is way overpriced. I own it, love it, but we've seen how users react when avid came out with their upgrade price. They simply need to offer a cheap v 1 so everyone will try it because they just want to see how it works. After that you raise the price once they give the future features that they've listed. If it comes out at $300 for the 1st version I doubt I'll bite. I'd just wait it out and then end up probably getting an upgrade for live 9, and then just see how the software progresses.

Hope they do it right cause it's the first version and they need lots of people to jump on board if they want to make it.

[pdxindy]

that Ableton will (as it looks) finally have some competitor can only be a good news.

I just hope it'll be good enough for live acts so I could buy it instead of Live upgrade, also the introductory price up to $100 would be really welcome and actually pretty much logical as this is completely new product and although a few of us might be excited about it, when it comes to actually spending some money a serious thought will certainly take place.

that said, if the intro price will be no more than $100 i'll probably buy it right away.

I would say there is no chance for that sort of price...

That could very well be their niche. I mean, the market for overpriced music software is really fed up, don't you think?

With the number of people they have they could not stay in business at that low price... It will be around $300 is my guess

[paradiddle]

Just wondering if the multi-user thing over the net can be done without a 3rd party involved. By ip address or something.

[gckilla]

It's going to be more than Live intro and less than Live (regular) I'm guessing it's going to be in the 200-250 range.

[felonytrance]

With the number of people they have they could not stay in business at that low price... It will be around $300 is my guess

With that steep of a price I bet lots of people will pass. On the other hand if they make it as cheap as a upgrade from Live 8 to 9. Then they will have a lot more people.

They just have to find the magic number max profit with most amount of users

[pc999]

With the number of people they have they could not stay in business at that low price... It will be around $300 is my guess

With that steep of a price I bet lots of people will pass. On the other hand if they make it as cheap as a upgrade from Live 8 to 9. Then they will have a lot more people.

They just have to find the magic number max profit with most amount of users

By that line of thought: Ableton have around 130 people in here and costs 300€. Bitwing have less than 10 so it can cost 13x less, so it can cost 23€, I will almost certainly buy it.


Anyway it will be based on how many licenses they expect to sell and how much expenses they have.

If they can sell 5000* licenses per month at 100€ (50000€/month)they can probably get just fine and personally it doesn't seem to be a hard number at all at such a price.


* Edit I meant 500

[UncleAge]

Ummm, 5000 x 100 = 500,000

[pdxindy]

With the number of people they have they could not stay in business at that low price... It will be around $300 is my guess

With that steep of a price I bet lots of people will pass. On the other hand if they make it as cheap as a upgrade from Live 8 to 9. Then they will have a lot more people.

They just have to find the magic number max profit with most amount of users

By that line of thought: Ableton have around 130 people in here and costs 300€. Bitwing have less than 10 so it can cost 13x less, so it can cost 23€, I will almost certainly buy it.


Anyway it will be based on how many licenses they expect to sell and how much expenses they have.

If they can sell 5000 licenses per month at 100€ (50000€/month)they can probably get just fine and personally it doesn't seem to be a hard number at all at such a price.

500,000

but I think they are lucky to sell 5000 the first year... unless it just totally kicks butt!!

[pc999]

I meant 500 licenses per month at 100€ seems like quite a doable number (very low IMO really) and quite a nice return too for a start up company.

[LawrenceF]

but I think they are lucky to sell 5000 the first year... unless it just totally kicks butt!!

I'd be interested in seeing the numbers for a typical random start up like that. There are so many random variables involved in that kinda thing it's hard to know how many sales they'd actually need to be profitable. It may not be as many as people think, especially at $2-300 each which adds up pretty quickly.

It really depends on things like ...

- Did they go into debt for the start up?
- How costly is the office space and equipment?
- Average (expected) personal salary ranges?
- How expensive tech licensing may be if any?
- Random costs like advertising, trade shows, etc, etc.
- Probably some not so cheap at all legal costs.
- They probably have life and accident insurance on each other which probably isn't all that cheap.

It's really impossible to know where their margins really are from the outside. It could be a couple of thousand copies at $2-300 or way more. It could be that they don't even plan to make a profit for the first 2-3 years at all and are running on investor seed money for the shorter term. It obviously takes a bit of seed money to code for two years without selling anything at all, since they had to eat and live while doing that. Or one (or more) of them might already be independently wealthy, no clue.

It's really impossible to know the real status of a company without being on the inside in some way.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[LawrenceF]

i find it hard to believe that's possible.

I actually thought he meant 5000 in a year. 5000 a month at $300 (which would of course have to be an "average" from selling 60k copies in a year?) would be (if my math is right) $18,000,000 dollars in sales, a bonanza / lottery for a small company like that.

They'd be (the main guys anyway) spending their bonuses on Rolls Royces.

I mean... I don't know how many people bought S1 but they don't have anywhere near 60k users registered on the forum... and I think the forum is directly connected to the registration database.

[hibidy]

It's like this, if it's more than 300 bones, it's still going to be popular. Live is still a unique and beloved host. Peeps are just tired of certain things.

I believe you were right the first time, let's say 299. If the clips to arranger is intuitive (which it was not with live imho) then that is going to be a deal most likely right there.

Reaper is fine for linear composing.........I'm not really good with that though. Even with regions, it's still a chore as I'd much prefer to just have different "clips" and go that way. BUT, putting it all together never really made a ton of sense in live.

Also, routing and busing. I don't know about you, but I always had a bad taste in my mouth over this with live. It's been a while since I've used live so maybe it's better but it always seemed very difficult to get even remotely correct in live.

Cpu optimization: Absolutely critical. Why would I give up several tracks with gazillion FX and running at 15% cpu load for something that chokes up after loading?

Stability.......well duh.

It doesn't need to be an "is all end all" but it needs these things to be of any use to me. Otherwise I'm good (flw's!!!!!! )

[LawrenceF]

Does anyone ever notice how Winter NAMM kinda falls right before tax refund time, giving people with GAS a nice little period to plan what they will buy? Methinks that's not really a coincidence.

Hibidy: $2500 tax refund check in late March.
Bitwig Studio: $300 and sexy as a lingerie model.

Knowing what's gonna happen before it happens: Priceless.

[hibidy]

Does anyone ever notice how Winter NAMM kinda falls right before tax refund time, giving people with GAS a nice little period to plan what they will buy? Methinks that's not really a coincidence.

Hibidy: $2500 tax refund check in late March.
Bitwig Studio: $300 and sexy as a lingerie model.

Knowing what's gonna happen before it happens: Priceless.

I don't get tax refunds . I'll spare you the details but it involves annuities