Bitwig (!/?)

[luckystrike]

We can't tell if it's good or not yet. Almost everything is just speculation at the moment. BUT we DO know that it is a good thing that Ableton get's a competitor! That will force them to do something. That's always a good thing
And maybe Bitwig Studio is even a better solution for some!
I have the feeling that this will be a really good host though.
Everything just seems to be well thought out

Cheers
Dennis

There are clear differece between copy products and competitive products. Nobody calls ipot as competitive products of iPod. Nobody calls qPhone as competitive products of iPhone. We call Android as competitive products of iOS.

[jens]

You work for Ableton, or what?

Please go ahead and enlighten us on how it is a mere copy of Live. You do seem to have much deeper information that what's available on the Bitwig side as of now, since over there you can't find any evidence at all which could be interpreted that way within the strict bounds of reason.

[Bronto Scorpio]

There are clear differece between copy products and competitive products. Nobody calls ipot as competitive products of iPod. Nobody calls qPhone as competitive products of iPhone. We call Android as competitive products of iOS.

Well, Bitwig seems to be very similar to Live but has many features Live users have requested for a long time.

Now Ableton has 2 options:
- Do something about it and implement some of the features as well (In one or another form).
- Do nothing and risk to loose some users to Bitwig.

That's how competition works. It's a good thing.
I don't really get the "It's just a clone" thing. No one says that about Reaper, Cubase, Sonar, Logic......which are all basically the same thing with a different interface and maybe some unique features here and there.
I'm not a Live user by the way.
And even IF it is "Just" a clone but even "better" than the original, that would be a good thing right?

Ideas don't get stolen, ideas evolve. And in this case some of the key features may even have been ideas of the Bitwig team when they still worked for Ableton.

Cheers
Dennis

[jens]

To me a lot of it reminds me much more of Reaper and studio 1 than of live.

In fact most of the screenshots which are currently on the website could be by somewhat like 90% simulated with Reaper. But how does it all really work? We now kind of know how it looks, but how does it feel? None of us knows yet.

Clip launcher? Live has just a single one, not two dedicated ones for arranging and live-performance respectively, right? And what about Project5 and Sonar X1? Are these mere copies of Live as well?


Someone in this thread seems bitter enough to me to be an Ableton employee.

[Bronto Scorpio]

Yeah right! Let's stop the comparsions. There will always be some similarities. I have the feeling that Bitwig will combine the best of many different hosts in a unique and well thought out way
It's way to early to say anything yet of course. I'm sure there will be some videos from NAMM which will show more

Cheers
Dennis

[Branis]

I don't really get the "It's just a clone" thing. No one says that about Reaper, Cubase, Sonar, Logic......which are all basically the same thing with a different interface and maybe some unique features here and there.

My thoughts exactly.

[headquest]

WIth respect, I don't think Bitwig can escape from the Ableton comparison, because it goes way beyond embracing the clip launch metaphor, and includes a significant number of direct copycat visuals and window layouts. They appear to want and be courting those comparisons...

Even if Bitwig had simply used the Session View metaphor for launching clips above the mixer, comparisons would have surely been made. But they went so much further, for example:

+ horizontal channel strip of instruments and effects along the bottom, including level meter at each stage that uses identical graphics
+ drum racks and several of the effects directly copy the layout of controls
+ nested racks within racks using very similar working metaphor
+ thin transport bar along the top - Ableton is the only other programme with a similar look
+ same graphical approach to the mixer strips
+ MIDI editor uses the identical colour scheme - Red nots showing velocity dependant on colour saturation, against a white and grey background
+ switch between session and arrangment using bottons at top right

... and so on. The visuals are so closely based on the actual Ableton originals, that it would be very hard for Bitwig to shake off the impression that they have deliberately copied the look and feel of Live.

And no, I don't work for Ableton, lol.
I'm just saying what everyone here can see from looking at the screenshots Bitwig have published so far. And you can bet most people will immediately recognise and make the comparison. Quite why Bitwig chose to even copy colour schemes in the MIDI editor for example is anyone's guess, but I reckon more than a few people will question the motives.

[luckystrike]

You work for Ableton, or what?

Please go ahead and enlighten us on how it is a mere copy of Live. You do seem to have much deeper information that what's available on the Bitwig side as of now, since over there you can't find any evidence at all which could be interpreted that way within the strict bounds of reason.

Use live. You'll find exactly same design and structure in that picture as well as you see same design in chinese copy products. Additional feature? Lacking feature? They don't matter for the copy products.

[necho2]

I don't really get the "It's just a clone" thing. No one says that about Reaper, Cubase, Sonar, Logic......which are all basically the same thing with a different interface and maybe some unique features here and there.

My thoughts exactly.

+1

The multitrack tape machine/mixer emulation format has been cloned again and again - by every traditional DAW.

Competition and the evolution of ideas is a GOOD THING.

There are some really weird reactions to Bitwig - it's almost like people don't want more choice, and they resent being offered it.

Check this out (from the Ableton forum):

Its a bit disappointing. Almost like they took feature request list and built a product around that.

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 7&start=60

facepalm.

And then there are the conspiracy theorists who think Bitwig ARE Ableton..... and they're both connected to the CIA or something....

[gpunk]

WIth respect, I don't think Bitwig can escape from the Ableton comparison, blah blah, for example:

1 horizontal channel strip of instruments and effects along the bottom, including level meter at each stage that uses identical graphics
2 drum racks and several of the effects directly copy the layout of controls
3 nested racks within racks using very similar working metaphor
4 thin transport bar along the top - Ableton is the only other programme with a similar look
5 same graphical approach to the mixer strips
6 MIDI editor uses the identical colour scheme - Red nots showing velocity dependant on colour saturation, against a white and grey background
7 switch between session and arrangment using bottons at top right

... and so on.

1 Renoise
2 Aren't most layouts for instruments and effects pretty similar on most VST aswell ?
3 Tracktion
4 Reaper v4
5 A mixer is a mixer is a mixer
6 Colors, is that it ?
7 Yeah no other app could possibly use buttons top right uh haha


Seriously these comparisons are nothing more than trolling at best, you are talking about images, nothing more, wait until you have tried it

[mrdr]

It's simple, people invested money and are now attached to Live. So Bitwig seems like a threat to their investment. Indeed, facepalm.

[luckystrike]

There are clear differece between copy products and competitive products. Nobody calls ipot as competitive products of iPod. Nobody calls qPhone as competitive products of iPhone. We call Android as competitive products of iOS.

That's how competition works. It's a good thing.

Copying whole concept of other products isn't competition. You seem to misunderstand the definition.

I don't really get the "It's just a clone" thing. No one says that about Reaper, Cubase, Sonar, Logic......which are all basically the same thing with a different interface and maybe some unique features here and there.
I'm not a Live user by the way.
And even IF it is "Just" a clone but even "better" than the original, that would be a good thing right?

Some said "are you a beta tester or something?". I don't have any idea how you describe it as "better". But, additional of the feature or lacking doesn't related with the plagiarism. By the way, which of those Daw did copy the UI structure, clip launcher, UI design of the effects, UI design of the Instruments, UI design of the multi sampler from only one other DAW?

Ideas don't get stolen, ideas evolve.

Make a speach in front of layers who work for patents.

And in this case some of the key features may even have been ideas of the Bitwig team when they still worked for Ableton.

team never have the right to use whole ideas and work that have done in 10 years by Ableton workers.

[gpunk]

How's about you let Ableton and their lawyers worry about it, instead of trolling non stop

[Bronto Scorpio]

It's simple, people invested money and are now attached to Live. So Bitwig seems like a threat to their investment. Indeed, facepalm.

That seems to be it.
The Live users wait endlessly for some improvements they requested so often (I don't use live, this just based on forum observations) and now someone else comes along and simply does it. I can certainly understand why some Live users are a bit pissed off.
Really sad how this thread derailed.
I'm certainly looking forward to Bitwig
Maybe it's total crap, who knows.

Cheers
Dennis

[luckystrike]

How's about you let Ableton and their lawyers worry about it, instead of trolling non stop

I think you are rather troll because it is so immoral that you admire chinese copy products for good plagiarism.