Progressions, numbers, major and minor, oh my.......help...

[osiris]

What I think I've learned if you're doing a major chord progression, the capital numbers will be major chords, while the lowercase numbers will be minor.
Does this apply in reverse for a minor chord progression?
Capital numbers - Minor chord
Lowercase numbers - major
?
And in the case of the Dominant chord - if it's a lowercase number, would that 7make it a Major 7 chord? Or just a 7?
Please excuse the ignorance.
Thanks.

[cis-didge]

Do you mean letters, when you say numbers. Cause there are no such thing as upper- and lowercase numbers.

[sjm]

No, the case always means the same thing. Otherwise you'd never have "i".

If it meant different things at different times confusion would reign supreme when using chords that aren't in the initial key, and you'd always need to specify the key, which defeats the point of the exercise.

That is assuming I've understood your question correctly, I get the impression you're very confused

[JumpingJackFlash]

What I think I've learned if you're doing a major chord progression, the capital numbers will be major chords, while the lowercase numbers will be minor.
Does this apply in reverse for a minor chord progression?
Capital numbers - Minor chord
Lowercase numbers - major
?
And in the case of the Dominant chord - if it's a lowercase number, would that 7make it a Major 7 chord? Or just a 7?
Please excuse the ignorance.
Thanks.

People use upper case Roman Numerals to denote chords with a major third in, and lower case Roman Numerals to denote chords with a minor third in (regardless of key).

The seventh is something different. It is possible for example to have a major third and a minor seventh (called a Dominant seventh, and figured 7), a major third and a major seventh (called a Major seventh, and figured maj7), a minor third and a minor seventh (called a Minor Seventh, and figured m7), and even a minor third and a major seventh (called a Minor-Major Seventh)

So, V7 for example is a dominant seventh (major third and minor seventh).

(In purely diatonic harmony, some people however, myself included, use uppercase numerals all the time, and 7 refers to a diatonic seventh; sometimes major, sometimes minor.)

See Scales, Modes and Chords for more details.

[jancivil]

telling the OP about uppercase = Major, lowercase = minor and then saying you use only the former? Really? that's only going to confuse a beginner.

I never heard of anybody doing that until this board, actually.

I see "II" in C major and I read it as "D major". the normal way is sufficient to provide the pertinent information, major or minor triad. This other way is aberrant.

the thing to know from the rest of that, is look at the construction [of triadic harmony] from the 'quelity' of the third first, Major, or minor.

you can have a Major/minor 7th chord, you can have a minor/Major 7th chord.

[osiris]

Well, they are Roman numbers....
I think I have this figured out.
I'm doing C minor, and turns out there's no majors at all. There's flats.

[jancivil]

no.

the number of Majors versus minors is the same for a minor key that shares the same key signature as its relative Major. C minor and Eb Major both have three flats in the signature. there are three Major triads and three minor triads and one diminished triad in the diatonic scale by default. 'same key signature' means 'same seven notes'. building triads results in the same seven triads.

The I chord in Eb is the III chord in C minor.
The i chord in C minor is the vi chord in Eb.

that reveals the relationship of relative major/relative minor. their key note or tonic is at the interval of a minor third or a major sixth apart (depending on which direction you're measuring in).

etc...

[jancivil]

Well, they are Roman numbers....

in music theory they are symbols for chords (so you have the relationship independent of 'what key note'), which have a meaning. Capital = Major, small letter = minor.

[sjm]

I'm not quite sure where it stems from but there seems to be a prevalent confusion between sharps/flats and major/minor.

The two are quite distinct and very different things.

A major chord is a chord where the first interval from the root is a so-called major third or 4 semitones.

A minor chord is a chord where the first interval from the root is a so-called minor third or 3 semitones.

Hence the names. Note that the second interval in a major chord is a minor third (3 semitones); and the second interval in a minor chord is a major third (4 semitones).

In other words, the semitones intervals from the root (0) that make up these chords can be written as:

Major: 0, 4, 7 (e.g. C E G)
Minor: 0, 3, 7 (e.g. C Eb G)

Just because the minor third in C is a flat doesn't mean that there is ANY relationship between minor chords and flats/sharps.

D major is D F# A
and D minor is D F A ...

Chords are all about intervals not note names. Don't confuse the two.


----

The roman numerals are all about conveying relationships between chords. I or i is simply the key you are playing in (which can be any arbitrary key). For example, I IV V - the 3 chord trick - applies equally to:
C F G
D G A
E A B

and all the other keys.

[Sascha Franck]

In most "contemporary" chord analysis there's only capital numbers used. A distinction between upper and lower case is basically sort of restricted to classical analysis.
So, instead of, say I - ii, you will most likely find I - IImin (or II- or IIm). There's good reasons for that because especially in handwritten scores and the likes, it's quite tough to make out what is upper or lower case.

- Sascha

[osiris]

It's very difficult for someone like me with little musical training.
You can look at a chord chart and think, Well your songs in a minor key, so all the notes have to be minor.
I did find a chord chart that list all the major and minor chord progressions AND the way the notes are supposed to be played.
The one I had just said: D. Okay, who knew the D was supposed to be a Ddim?
(Sorry to sound like an idiot. It's all beginning to come together slowly)

[manducator]

Here is a free music theory course:

http://www.musictheory.net/

[lotus2035]

[sjm]

It's very difficult for someone like me with little musical training.
You can look at a chord chart and think, Well your songs in a minor key, so all the notes have to be minor.

There is no such thing as a minor note.

There are various minor scales - which differ in the notes in the scale. You should easily be able to find an overview of the different minor scales using google or on wiki.

[jancivil]

In most "contemporary" chord analysis there's only capital numbers used. A distinction between upper and lower case is basically sort of restricted to classical analysis.

basically? sort of? what? if you break down the basic difference in bebop vs older jazz reharmonization, the pertinent concept is ii-V-I and a quality of substition particularly for V [V7b5 = II7b5]; and later down the line you can look at where i is the new ii, or where ii becomes II.

I wouldn't know where 'classical type of analysis' breaks for functional harmony unless you want to assign roman numbers to rock 'progressions' which are as likely to have been conceived outside the paradigm as any guess.

I didn't know handwritten sheet music which tells the person the chords with roman numbers was so prevalent.