Mask envelopes in Image Line Harmor

[tony tony chopper]

You should be paying someone who is very very very good to do it while you work

We ARE paying people for videos, I just don't like them. Do you? Because if you do, getting them done is only an email away.
We don't just need someone who can make videos, but someone who can understand the synth. You wouldn't ask anyone "hey you can make tutorials? can you make one teaching chinese?".

So, if you like this video, it's only an email away. But to me it's just a waste of time and I'd rather wait for someone who will learn & understand Harmor.

So if you like this, we can make them. I've been against so far because IMHO these are more anti-ads (sound-wise).


And btw, to make a tutorial you have to know what it's capable of, and I don't know myself. I heard things in Sytrus that I didn't think possible, years after its release.

Finally, A LOT of people wanna understand the 4 harmonizer digit controls, and I keep telling that I never remember myself how they work, they're just made to be tweaked by ear. Sometimes you have to accept that a synth/tool comes with its own "magic settings", and that you don't have to understand the schematics in order to use them. You tweak them, it does something that's hard to describe with words, I see nothing wrong with that. Next time I'll just use a big knob a place "grizzly bear", "porc sausage" and "banana" around it, some plugins do that and no one asks what it really does.

If anyone here knows Harmor -very well- and knows how to film good tutorials (something that's not easy either, even recording noise-free is hard), contact us.

Manuals are the same btw. You can pay for a(nother) manual, but the guy will just fill it with what he understands. Most of the time it will be filled with hot air, like, it will have a big section about "saving", saying "move your cursor over the save button in order to save. Then in the saving dialog, type in your filename, and press ok to save.", while a special section will be explained as "crunch: defines the amount of crunchness".
I don't know, when I have a problem with something I don't check the manual, I check user groups. I don't think I ever opened the manuals of any of the tools that were used to make Harmor.

Sound designers!
In twenty words or less- Why are there no Harmor banks?

Here's a tip, if soundbanks are important to you, you should buy the synth that has been advertised everywhere, that's the one I'd cover first if I were a preset designer.
For Harmor it'll be in the long run - again I believe it started like Sytrus, & will grow over years.

[Shabdahbriah]

... But to me it's just a waste of time and I'd rather wait for someone who will learn & understand Harmor.

Indeed.

THE man >>> http://www.platinumears.com/ <<< right there.

[whet]

... But to me it's just a waste of time and I'd rather wait for someone who will learn & understand Harmor.

Indeed.

THE man >>> http://www.platinumears.com/ <<< right there.

Yeah this guy makes outstanding videos, realy enjoyed his fabfilter stuff.

[Yatmandu]

Surely there are lots of people out there who know enough DSP in both time and frequency domains, as well as have good video skills. I mean This isn't quantum physics or rocket science. It's still just plain old DSP, no

[projectdan]

Finally, A LOT of people wanna understand the 4 harmonizer digit controls, and I keep telling that I never remember myself how they work, they're just made to be tweaked by ear. Sometimes you have to accept that a synth/tool comes with its own "magic settings", and that you don't have to understand the schematics in order to use them. You tweak them, it does something that's hard to describe with words, I see nothing wrong with that. Next time I'll just use a big knob a place "grizzly bear", "porc sausage" and "banana" around it, some plugins do that and no one asks what it really does.

I feel better knowing that, I do like to have a theoretical sense of what parameters do, even if they have substantially different sounding outcomes depending on input (like FM and additive can). I can live with some of Harmor's parameters being mysterious, as long as I know that they are actually quite abstract, and Im not missing out on a simple and informative explanation.

[tony tony chopper]

It's still just plain old DSP

The oldest (centuries) & simplest actually..
It's just that musicians are used too much to the oscillator+filter+knobs paradigm.

and Im not missing out on a simple and informative explanation

there is math behind the harmonizer, it's pretty much adding scaled versions of the signal (in freq domain) over itself with scaling & translation. But it'd be useless to explain it in depth, because no one can have a sound in mind & know which numbers would help reaching it. In the end it's tweaked at random until you get used to it, just like with FM (no one is gonna know better how to make FM presets after having read the (very simple) principle of FM).
It's also for things like this that I added the visual feedback. What can't be explained with words might still be understandable through the display.

[Shabdahbriah]

... It's also for things like this that I added the visual feedback. What can't be explained with words might still be understandable through the display.

Absolutely!!! If not "understood", there is at least a "sense" of what is going on, and with exposure/experience we develop a palette of comparisons or formulas, which become familiar... pretty basic, really.

[IIRs]

Why not ask Dan Worrall to do some in-depth video tutorials. The man makes great tutorials and knows his synthesis inside and out. I'm sure he wouldn't have any problems understanding Harmor.

Cheers!
bManic

+1

He's my favorite tutorial guy, by far. His knowledge, "building-blocks" approach, manner, and in fact his whole "style" makes watching (and listening) a pleasure, and they're always straight forward and informative.

His site: http://www.platinumears.com/

Thanks for the kind words (and you even corrected the spelling of Worrall)!

I would be happy to help out, though I'm not currently a Harmor user and would need to learn the synth first... in this situation I would usually start by reading the manual

FWIW I agree with the statement that videos are not a substitute for a manual. A well crafted tutorial video can be a very efficient way to learn the basic concepts, and can demonstrate features in context to make them easier to understand. But it can't cover every detail of every control (not while remaining interesting and inspiring to watch anyway) so that's where the manual needs to take over with a detailed explanation that you can refer to when needed.

I usually refer to the manual constantly while writing tutorial scripts, even when its a plug that I know well: sometimes there are details that I've missed, or special cases that need highlighting, or maybe I've even misunderstood the function and made incorrect assumptions. I also make an effort to use the same terminology as the manual to avoid any confusion. No doubt I could work without a manual, but it would take longer and I would rely more heavily on the developer to proof-read my scripts and check for errors.

Is there really no manual at all for Harmor at the moment? I could possibly help with that, if you need someone that understands the concepts and can write them into good clear English...

[tony tony chopper]

Is there really no manual at all for Harmor at the moment?

of course there is (a big) one, don't listen to the drama queen.
http://www.image-line.com/support/FLHel ... Harmor.htm
It's just that it wasn't written by a Harmor user, & thus won't cover the smallest details.

FWIW I agree with the statement that videos are not a substitute for a manual

with the problem that almost no one reads/wanna read manuals (we'd know, as most of the questions in our forums find their answer in the manual).

[DIGIFEX]

Well, it's not that there's no Harmor manual at all. But - as with all Image Line Instruments I have bought so far - the manual is very short (less than 30 pages if you print the HTML-file). My experience is that synths as complex as Harmor is most of the time have manuals that are around 50 - 80 printed pages.

However I didn't find any information on the mask envelopes at all in the current Harmor manual. That was why I started this thread.
If some features are too complicated to explain them in the manual and are better learnded by doing - I would suggest to add at least a hint that encourages the user to try it out and hear what happens.
If there's no info on a feature of the synth in the manual and I can figure it out easily I am starting to ask myself if I'm too dumb to use it.
By the way: From what I see the manuals for Morphine, Toxic, Sakura and Drumaxx seem to cover every parameter that the instrument offers. So why not add some sentences in the Harmor manual? The current one is not carved in stone. So updating it should not be a big issue.

Finally I would say that Image Line products are generally very usable and have a clean interface even when it's a more complex beast like Harmor. And I personally prefer buying a good synth with a bad manual to buying a bad one with a good manual.

[IIRs]

of course there is (a big) one, don't listen to the drama queen.
http://www.image-line.com/support/FLHel ... Harmor.htm
It's just that it wasn't written by a Harmor user, & thus won't cover the smallest details.

Ah, ok. But with all due respect, I think the manual should cover the smallest details.

with the problem that almost no one reads/wanna read manuals (we'd know, as most of the questions in our forums find their answer in the manual).

I read the manuals! I would much rather reference a good manual than post in a forum and wait for (possibly unhelpful) replies. I'm sure I'm not alone...

[tony tony chopper]

However I didn't find any information on the mask envelopes at all in the current Harmor manual. That was why I started this thread.

There is a tutorial preset called "masking units", though, which makes things clear when you watch the visual feedback.
And it's not a critical feature, absolutely none of the presets (except the tut) uses masking. It's mainly handy to scale the resonance in the spectrum.

[chroma]

good info. so how about that wiki....

[dmbaer]

of course there is (a big) ---manual---

Twenty pages is not a big manual for something as complex as Harmor. Check out the manual for Alchemy if you want to see one that's done right.

There's much about Harmor that's just not explained at all. One example (I'm doing this from memory and I'm not at my DAW): there are two EQs, one per-note and one global. There's some evidence the per-note EQ does key follow, but no-where is that stated one way or the other. How are we supposed to know which? Experimentation? For starters, why do we have to take the time when the develper knows exactly what it does. For another thing, tracking EQ curve movements by ear is not something everyone finds easy. Don't get me started on how to figure out how loops are defined with fade regions in the graphic additive editor. No clue from what the documentation provides.

with the problem that almost no one reads/wanna read manuals (we'd know, as most of the questions in our forums find their answer in the manual).

You cannot make that conclusion from that evidence. All you can say with certainty is that some people do not read manuals. This is hardly a news flash. It should be clear from this thread that some people value good documentation highly and do read it.

Hopefully you'll also observe that there's a lot of passion for Harmor. It is truly unique and wonderful. You've confidently stated it'll "catch on" in a couple of years, and you're probably correct. But clearly some of us don't want to wait that long.

[tony tony chopper]

How are we supposed to know which? Experimentation?

yes, or by the name (note-local vs global)

Check out the manual for Alchemy if you want to see one that's done right.

you get what you pay for..
IL provides a demo of everything it sells, so if a detailed manual is that important, better buy something else, it's not what we're the best at.

Don't get me started on how to figure out how loops are defined with fade regions in the graphic additive editor. No clue from what the documentation provides.

I can read it here:
http://www.image-line.com/support/FLHel ... Harmor.htm
looping (menu) - To set a loop hold Ctrl + Left-click and drag on the region to loop. The start time will be made coincident with the Loop Start, use the Image time offset knob to disassociate them. Alternatively, use the Image options > Tools 'Set viewed zone as loop region' & 'Set last played zone as loop region' OR include a loop in your imported sample and it will be autodetected and used.
& as you can see here, you're not the only one who missed it in the manual, proof that it doesn't really matter if it's explained or not.
http://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.p ... 79#p633779