KVR Audio

auwerk · Post by **auwerk** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:59 pm

Hi khanyz, yes there's jackd process still running after MixBus was closed.

I started writing this post right after I've closed MixBus and boom! Windows BSODed again.
I hope developers will fix this ASAP.

No, I will not buy it until it's done. ~150 bucks is too much for software that wants my PC to reboot every time I close it.

Is 64-bit Windows version planned? After these nasty bugs will be fixed, offcourse

BenLoftis · Post by **BenLoftis** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:13 pm

khanyz wrote:It still doesn't quit jack properly when MixBus exits. That's probably why it hangs on the starting audio engine splash, the next time you run it.

@khanyz and auwerk: We've seen a few reports of this (not releasing the audio card), but haven't yet found a system where we can recreate it. I'm sure we can get it sorted quickly if you will email us at: mixbus@harrisonconsoles.com

Best Regards,
Ben Loftis
Harrison Consoles

Johnny! · Post by **Johnny!** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:46 pm

you should clearly state that this software is in early beta phase (at least windows port). and don't tell me it isn't - we can clearly see that it indeed is. i dunno if i would like to pay ~$150 to be able to betatest anything

BenLoftis · Post by **BenLoftis** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:02 pm

Hi Tehnik,

That is not the case at all! The features of Mixbus that everyone wants (high-performance recording, editing, and especially mixing) are highly refined after several years of development. Issues with specific Windows setups are bound to happen in the first launch of any software. We anticipated having some of these, and within 4 weeks we've already released an update to resolve almost all of the issues that were reported to us.

We've still got some 3rd-party plugin issues to resolve. But by design, Mixbus dramatically reduces the need for plugins to make a great-sounding mix. Plugins aren't the point, anymore.

Plugins were designed as a compromise when the first digital audio editors were developed, and the users wanted to add their main tools of EQ and compression ... but your computer could only run 4 EQs on your 8-track editor! What to do?! The idea of a "plugin" that is allocated only on the tracks you need it most was a compromise, not a design idea. ( of course there are some things like reverb that _do_ make sense as a plugin ... but you only need a few of those).

Mixbus is a "reboot" of the DAW concept. We focused on the sound of the DAW, and being open with our development.

Best,
-Ben

Johnny! · Post by **Johnny!** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:25 pm

BenLoftis wrote:Plugins aren't the point, anymore.

Plugins were designed as a compromise when the first digital audio editors were developed, and the users wanted to add their main tools of EQ and compression ... but your computer could only run 4 EQs on your 8-track editor! What to do?! The idea of a "plugin" that is allocated only on the tracks you need it most was a compromise, not a design idea. ( of course there are some things like reverb that _do_ make sense as a plugin ... but you only need a few of those)

that's just hilarious

you seriously believe in this?

btw i'm totally not against you or your software, theres audience for everything, it's just that I find some of your statements well... bold.

camsr · Post by **camsr** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:17 am

Tehnik wrote:
BenLoftis wrote:Plugins aren't the point, anymore.

Plugins were designed as a compromise when the first digital audio editors were developed, and the users wanted to add their main tools of EQ and compression ... but your computer could only run 4 EQs on your 8-track editor! What to do?! The idea of a "plugin" that is allocated only on the tracks you need it most was a compromise, not a design idea. ( of course there are some things like reverb that _do_ make sense as a plugin ... but you only need a few of those)
that's just hilarious you seriously believe in this?

btw i'm totally not against you or your software, theres audience for everything, it's just that I find some of your statements well... bold.

It's not about heavy handed processing? I think there is still that ability though (minus the CPU hit of having processors on the mixer).

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:32 am

BenLoftis wrote: Plugins were designed as a compromise when the first digital audio editors were developed, and the users wanted to add their main tools of EQ and compression ... but your computer could only run 4 EQs on your 8-track editor! What to do?! The idea of a "plugin" that is allocated only on the tracks you need it most was a compromise, not a design idea. ( of course there are some things like reverb that _do_ make sense as a plugin ... but you only need a few of those).

Mixbus is a "reboot" of the DAW concept. We focused on the sound of the DAW, and being open with our development.

Best,
-Ben

Hi Ben! I am not sure am i getting this right. I do respect your comment because you are developer coming from big company and just because of that i am confused because statement is indeed weird. I would like to know where did you get that picture about "plugin concept" being designed as "compromise" ? Isn't it that plugins where designed to mimick kinda hardware way of doing things - where you plug some sort of FX in to chain, or mimick some sort of channel strip like you have on a mix console?!? I always believed that's the case not some kind of compromise.

Note that i am not questioning your skills or whatever i am really genuinely curious about statement since it's coming from you.

Thanks.

gckilla · Post by **gckilla** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:15 am

I use this software on linux, where it is quite mature. And quite awesome. Just wanted to balance out the picture.

Yes, there are some issues in windows (I myself was having a problem with the mixbus not releasing audio - need to check out the latest build) and I would suggest to everyone who wants to try out mixbus on windows to not put your money down until the demo works on your computer.

Ben - There are quite a lot of social hand grenades on KVR; you don't have to answer them all.

BenLoftis · Post by **BenLoftis** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:18 pm

kmonkey wrote:I would like to know where did you get that picture about "plugin concept" being designed as "compromise" ?

Hi kmonkey,

The beginnings of the DAW-on-a-desktop-computer paradigm started around 1990. To forward-thinking people, it was clear that a general-purpose computer could replace a multitrack tape machine, razor blade, and $1M automated mixing console. Computers could record, edit, process and mix audio.

There were 2 problems:

1) The guys making the editors weren't necessarily DSP gurus. In fact, quite the opposite was often the case. DSP guys were scientists that worked on sonar or other military technologies, and they were expensive people to keep around.

2) Computers could only run a few tracks, and there wasn't much processing power left for DSP. You could insert a good EQ, but not on every channel.

Plugins were the compromise that solved these two issues for those early developers.

The story gets rather complicated and more colorful the deeper you investigate

Best,
Ben

Johnny! · Post by **Johnny!** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:03 pm

but you're aware that A LOT has changed since around 1990?

BenLoftis · Post by **BenLoftis** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:05 pm

@Tehnik,

YES, and we are still stuck with the limitations of the old plugin model after 20 years. You have seen my point exactly!

Why can't the GUI of a plugin appear in the mixer strip in a user-friendly way? Why can't a plugin "see" the internal summing buses? These were two of the many frustrations we found when we tried to recreate a Harrison mixer as a collection of plugins.

-Ben

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:27 am

BenLoftis wrote:Why can't the GUI of a plugin appear in the mixer strip in a user-friendly way?
-Ben

I think someone at PreSonus asked that same question. All of their plugs do that in micro view, are editable in the mixer channel strip.

You do realize though, you're in the "Bunny Ranch" for daws... lot of daw whores here and they like their shiny plugin GUI's.

Seriously though, props for having the discussion. Not all daw mfgs reps do that, have a real ongoing discussion with the public.

contrary · Post by **contrary** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:25 am

BenLoftis wrote:
kmonkey wrote: The story gets rather complicated and more colorful the deeper you investigate

Best,
Ben

I have no problem believing this ; ... We are all still using qwerty keyboards ( which was a design "feature" to prevent mechanical typwriters from jamming !)

When thishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard

is better .

gckilla wrote: There are quite a lot of social hand grenades on KVR; you don't have to answer them all.

I'd advise against picking them up too !!!

gckilla · Post by **gckilla** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 pm

Okay, for all those using the windows version where upon exiting the app you find that you have no audio:

Check the task manager to see if the jackd and mixbus process is still running and if so...kill it with impunity. Reboot not required.

auwerk · Post by **auwerk** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:06 pm

gckilla, the problem is that I can not kill jackd process. And after a few tries Windows shows me BSOD.

Somebody tried Harrison Mixbus for Windows?