Zebra - realistic piano sound tips

[Polybius]

Anyone got any tips/pointers to making a realistic piano sound in Zebra to share? The closest i came is this patch:

http://users.telenet.be/bogaard/temp/Grandioso.h2p
(right-click/save as to download)

But i'm sure that one's up for improvement.

I've been messing around with various combinations of OSC effects, filters, waveforms etc... and I found that the following give the best results:

- There's a "sweet spot" somewhere in the "ripple" osc effect (I love this effect for shaping waveforms!).
- Combine with the "turbulance" effect for upper harmonics
- filters don't see to do much sound-wise, except for cutting out the nasty uppers that don't belong.

I'm sure you guys have got a few golden tips, thanks in advance!

[3ee]

some tips:

-Don't waste: your modulation possibilities, oscfx slots, time building on something that is hinting to go in other direction (unless you want to make something else of it, or just for fun), CPU; use VCF modules where possible instead of XMF... and less VCF modules in general.

-now what's that (the wavetable modulated by LFO1) suppose to do?
Give these "tiny variations" less priority and in most cases you won't even need to bother with them as modulating something else will probably take care of them by side effect anyway.

In most cases the tone is the hardest part so why don't you try shaping something else 1st? ..like the envelopes. Have a real piano or the demo version of Pianoteq for example next to you when working on the patch to set an example.

There are many things to take notice when emulating real instruments, especially the grand piano... good luck!

Don't forget that you can bend velocity curve and keyscale with themselves using the mod matrix mod and via... velocity via velocity for example or use the MMap for a more precise action.

You will need to model the hammer noise as well...otherwise the higher notes particularly will sound skinny and unnatural.

Also you will need to model the body resonance. Best way of doing that would be with a comb module with the pitch key tracking set to 0 (as the piano size won't change as you are playing up and down the keyboard )

Leave effects for a finishing touch....
Keytracked VCF modules set in peaking mode might help you at some point to shape the tone but don't rush using them because.. as I mentioned before they use quite some CPU + you might be masking some main timbre problems that might be easy to fix just by adjusting the oscfx values and modulations for example.

Don't get frustrated! .. chances are you can when modelling something of that difficulty.

Well hope these tips will help a bit.
Cheers,
3ee

[mcnoone]

Here's something about piano patches.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... sc&start=0

[Polybius]

Wow, thanks a lot for the tips 3ee! About the XMF, since it's introduction in version 2, I always regard the older VCF modules "old and thus useless", I barely touch them any more. Kinda stupid i guess

Mcoone, after listening to your patches, I feel like just giving up, because you already nailed it! Damn you're a good sound designer. Makes me feel like a sap

Thanks again guys!

[mcnoone]

Mcoone, after listening to your patches, I feel like just giving up, because you already nailed it! Damn you're a good sound designer. Makes me feel like a sap
Thanks again guys!

Thanks for saying so, as it really helps a lot to hear that.
It makes doing sounds worth the effort, only when others enjoy them too.
The thing I feal about emulation though, is it doesn't have to sound like a piano to be useful. The more useful thing is if in Zebra you come up with a piano'istic tone. Lots of good piano samples about, but it's more unique to come up with almost, not quite, different, unique, pianoistic, all your own Zebra patch. In fact, my plain piano patch is just that. It reminds the listener of piano (in a mix) but can actually be manipulated, altered, adjusted much better, or easier than a piano sample. It would also make the tracks it is used in, possibly sound more unique than using a sampled piano, or the korg house one, dx7 etc.
BTW, Michael Kastrup also has a few great piano sounds in his free bank there too to check out.
Good luck with the piano thing.
Definitely try as many Osc Fx combinations and values as possible in the search for it. The timbres found through doing that, helped me find sounds I never thought possible.
Take care.


btw...I also enjoyed going through your soundset several years ago, and it's still in my folder.

[bmrzycki]

I always regard the older VCF modules "old and thus useless", I barely touch them any more.

The new 2.5 VCF models are very good IMO, the drive parameter really adds bite now. I highly recommend re-evaluating them.

[Polybius]

Just a little update/bump with an updated patch and sound demo:

demo:
http://users.telenet.be/bogaard/temp/piano.mp3

patch:
http://users.telenet.be/bogaard/temp/Pianish.zip

No effort at all had been made yet to playability (no velocity, mod wheel etc.. programming). I've only been working towards getting the envelope/sound right. The demo was not played live, but the notes were programmed.

Any input is highly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

*edit*

Modulated ENV release and decay with Keytrack1 & 2. This makes the higher notes much shorter, like a real piano. Patch and demo sound much bettter now IMO

[mcnoone]

Thanks for the Pianoish patch.
Sound great.

[EvilDragon]

That is a very good attempt! I would get rid of that vibrato, though.

[3ee]

Polybius... you don't have to key track envelope parameters within the modulation matrix.... they are built-in into the envelope itself. Find a "+" mark on the envelope and click on it to expand to the extra features.

[Polybius]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! I'm still not satisfied though, I'm gonna give it a rest and work on some other patches for a while. The next and hopefully perfect iteration of this patch will be included in "Switched on 3", alongside many many new patches.

3ee: Oh my... You're right. I tought the extra options for the envelope only applied to velocity. Thanks for the heads up!

[3ee]

This isn't part of the "Winter" free instrument selection but will post it here as a bonus for those who visit this thread!

Grand Opening - grand piano patch.
http://www.box.com/s/bmvua7yryspgiy62gvza

Be sure to check it out with higher sample rates like 96k as well, as some modules will sound significantly better or a bit different.

Cheers,
3ee

[Polybius]

Almost missed this. Great work 3ee, really like what you've done with the velocity respone programming! One of the most complex patches i've ever witnessed, this could easily be sold as a standalone piano vst!

[3ee]

Almost missed this. Great work 3ee, really like what you've done with the velocity respone programming! One of the most complex patches i've ever witnessed, this could easily be sold as a standalone piano vst!

Thanks, did the best I could so that most key registers will sound relatively good. Hope that Zebra will get more mod matrix space pretty soon!

I thought about selling and kinda need to do a bit of that in order to keep doing this, but I also want to keep sharing free stuff with the community.

Thinking about my 1st sound design article for my blog.. hmm what would it be? so many things to write about!

[deastman]

I just picked up the Winter soundset. Great stuff! I can't wait to check out your piano patch.