Sonimus Satson (Console emulation) ready to buy now :)

[Compyfox]

Read my KVRmarks on "How Analog Equipment should be used".

It's a small tutorial with the competition, but it applys to every plugin that is calibrated to -18dB RMS.

[stash98]

Read my KVRmarks on "How Analog Equipment should be used".

It's a small tutorial with the competition, but it applys to every plugin that is calibrated to -18dB RMS.

Ok very cool. So basically I need to install the PSP vintage meter and get the meters to stay left of -10 on it by using the trim knob.

Correct?

I then drop in the plugin in slot 1 and boost the signal in there so it is close to zero but not going into the red.

From there I add EQ/Comp..etc..

Is this method I am choosing proper?

[bduffy]

I have had it for a week and I have to say I am pretty impressed. Not 100% sure what it is doing but its judicious use seems to offer a more open 3d sound scape. If nothing else it forces proper gain staging and for the overall mix and the filters help remove and latent adverse accumulation on the low and high side. Subtle but definitely useful in mixing. Not bad at all.

Resurrecting to make sure I am getting all this.

Basically you guys are getting your tracks into the DAW, and keeping all faders up to 0 (basically not touching them).

Here is my question..what are you peaking at before you insert anything? I track in at -12db, but sometimes samples or synths are louder. Are you using the trim in your DAW to also get those peaks at -12db, then inserting Satson, pushing the gain close to zero in the plug, and then using the DAW faders to mix volume?

Just making sure that I would be pushing the plug properly doing it like this.

I still use my DAW's faders, but I try to get the peaks at the input stage so they're not hitting the VU above -0dB (-18dbfs), which I think is a good, safe input level (and is a common target input level for many ADCs).

You can drive Satson's input harder, he suggests doing so in the manual, but I think he means doing it with Satson's architecture (crank gain knob, Super Gain, etc).

For plug-ins, I lower the instrument's output level. They're almost all cranked WAY to high and should be lowered anyway. And for guitar, I just use the VU to hit -0dbVU on the meter. Done!

[stash98]

I still use my DAW's faders, but I try to get the peaks at the input stage so they're not hitting the VU above -0dB (-18dbVU), which I think is a good, safe input level (and is a common target input level for many ADCs).

You can drive Satson's input harder, he suggests doing so in the manual, but I think he means doing it with Satson's architecture (crank gain knob, Super Gain, etc).

For plug-ins, I lower the instrument's output level. They're almost all cranked WAY to high and should be lowered anyway. And for guitar, I just use the VU to hit -0dbVU on the meter. Done!

Man I should do this..you are basically tracking in with something like the vintage meter and making sure it does not clip at zero? I just use Cubase meters and stay around -12db including peaks.

Agree with VSTI's..I always have to lower the output, but many times I like to bounce everything so I can just once again use the Vintage meter and get it at -0dbVU.

For louder drum samples, I can always bring them in and adjust them as well.

Ok, this makes sense...basic gain staging, but so I am reading this right, I just need to pay attention to -0dbvu on the vintage meter as my hotspot. I was misreading and thinking -18, which seemed too low.

[bduffy]

I still use my DAW's faders, but I try to get the peaks at the input stage so they're not hitting the VU above -0dB (-18dbVU), which I think is a good, safe input level (and is a common target input level for many ADCs).

You can drive Satson's input harder, he suggests doing so in the manual, but I think he means doing it with Satson's architecture (crank gain knob, Super Gain, etc).

For plug-ins, I lower the instrument's output level. They're almost all cranked WAY to high and should be lowered anyway. And for guitar, I just use the VU to hit -0dbVU on the meter. Done!

Man I should do this..you are basically tracking in with something like the vintage meter and making sure it does not clip at zero? I just use Cubase meters and stay around -12db including peaks.

Agree with VSTI's..I always have to lower the output, but many times I like to bounce everything so I can just once again use the Vintage meter and get it at -0dbVU.

For louder drum samples, I can always bring them in and adjust them as well.

Ok, this makes sense...basic gain staging, but so I am reading this right, I just need to pay attention to -0dbvu on the vintage meter as my hotspot. I was misreading and thinking -18, which seemed too low.

You didn't misread, I mistyped (this is why I don't teach audio)!

Yeah, you want peaks to hit -0dBVU, which is -18dBfs. Cubase's (and most DAW's) meters aren't that great, which is why I've moved on to using Satson/VCC meters (I can't use Vintage Meter, sadly) for monitoring levels more.

But Sonimus does seem to indicate you can push hard aggressively into the plug-in, so I guess it's up to you. But I do think it's a good rule for analog inputs to target 0dbVU/-18dBfs.

[hibidy]

You don't have the waves dorough (whatever) meters? Dude, my stuff sounds so much more analog and I have first ones (when they were 500 bucks) so they are EVEN BETTER!

Anyway, satson channel is a very good product at an extremely good price.

[stash98]

It seems like I can bypass the vintage meter and not even use it. I just use the gain knob to adjust the signal into satson and keep it around zero.

seems like thats all I need to do unless I am just screwing up

[bduffy]

It seems like I can bypass the vintage meter and not even use it. I just use the gain knob to adjust the signal into satson and keep it around zero.

seems like thats all I need to do unless I am just screwing up

Why not just use the VU on Satson?

[stash98]

yeah thats what i meant i would do.

i am using it in slot 1 for everything, busses as well.

[bduffy]

yeah thats what i meant i would do.

i am using it in slot 1 for everything, busses as well.

Cool, that's what I do too. I also like to use its filters for high/low-pass filtering - so smooth! But I bought VCC and tend to favour that for console emu these days.

[stash98]

Well I appreciate the help and some good info..this is an easy plug to use and is cheap as well!

[Compyfox]

Ok very cool. So basically I need to install the PSP vintage meter and get the meters to stay left of -10 on it by using the trim knob.

Correct?

You don't need PSP Vintage Meter for that. The SATSON is calibrated to -18dB RMS = 0VU already. I'd advice using a VU with trim knob (VUMT from Klanghelm comes to mind) if you need a gain/trim knob prior to a console modeling tool, or if it is not 100% correctly calibrated/lacks a gain/trim etc.

I then drop in the plugin in slot 1 and boost the signal in there so it is close to zero but not going into the red.

Basically yes.

Though you have to know that these (needle) meters respond to the average level rather than the peak level (hence RMS, they are usually setup to rise/fall 300ms and reference level of -18dB RMS). As bduffy already mentioned, your headroom in your host should be -18dBFS Digital Peak to -6dBFS Digital Peak for signal that has a lot of transients. Material like bass or kickdrums never reach that high in terms of transients, so you need to know how both a digital meter and a VU/RMS meter works.

Then it's fairly simple:
- transient heavy material can peak between -18dBFS digital and -6dBFS digital (while mixing and recording I usually never go higher than -10dBFS digital)
- bass intensive material hovers around 0VU (the reference level in this case is -18dB)

Let the loudest signal either peak around 0VU (bass) or if it's more transient heavy, then whatever seems fit as long as it doesn't exceed -6dBFS digital. To do this, utilize the gain/trim knob on either your host's channel strip (pre inserts), a dedicated VU on insert 1 (VUMT comes to mind again) or your console emulation (if it has a gain/trim knob).

After you leveled in your signal (also known as gain staging), you can go from there.

From there I add EQ/Comp..etc..

Exactly.

Is this method I am choosing proper?

There are no ultimate methods, you only need to know how an analog console (or analog equipment in general) works and port that over into the digital realm. Once you've understood that, you can do whatever the heck you want.


You might need to get adjusted to using less EQ/compression (or lower ratios on the latter) however. But this is a good thing actually rather than a bad one.

[macmurphy]

Read my KVRmarks on "How Analog Equipment should be used".

It's a small tutorial with the competition, but it applys to every plugin that is calibrated to -18dB RMS.

interesting and informative read, that. i have it saved as a text file entitled 'compy gain wisdom'

[sqigls]

Read my KVRmarks on "How Analog Equipment should be used".

It's a small tutorial with the competition, but it applys to every plugin that is calibrated to -18dB RMS.

Calibrating to -18dB is too safe if you ask me. I try to aim for -12, it will force you to sharpen your mixes and waste less bits... :p

[bduffy]

Read my KVRmarks on "How Analog Equipment should be used".

It's a small tutorial with the competition, but it applys to every plugin that is calibrated to -18dB RMS.

Calibrating to -18dB is too safe if you ask me. I try to aim for -12, it will force you to sharpen your mixes and waste less bits... :p

What does that mean, "sharpen your mixes"? I just don't see what's "sharper" about -12dB.