KVR Audio

Amon1973 · Post by **Amon1973** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:14 pm

LAGinz wrote:A 64 bit update coming "soon" is news to me.

IK reps stated in one of the threads about the T-Racks sale (IIRC) that CSR is on the roadmap this year, no ETA though.

Yep, CSR going 64bit is... well, unnerving. One of the few plugins I run bridged, not too happy about it.

BERFAB · Post by **BERFAB** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:54 pm

Amon1973 wrote:
LAGinz wrote:A 64 bit update coming "soon" is news to me.
IK reps stated in one of the threads about the T-Racks sale (IIRC) that CSR is on the roadmap this year, no ETA though.

Yep, CSR going 64bit is... well, unnerving. One of the few plugins I run bridged, not too happy about it.

The CSR Hall has a quality that I just don't find in any other plug. I have purchased Aether and Breeze, as well as Nomad Factory and other reverbs to try to replace it, but I just can't. Very smooth. No artifacts. Beautiful tails. No mud.

When it goes x64, I will dance a little jig. In my studio. Alone.

cheers
-B

ObiWonder · Post by **ObiWonder** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:25 pm

Glad to hear you guys are still liking the CSR sound, it really is timeless and with such a low price this month too!

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:28 pm

ObiK wrote:Glad to hear you guys are still liking the CSR sound, it really is timeless and with such a low price this month too!

But will it ever be 64-bit? Many people, myself included, use almost entirely 64-bit now to avoid having to rely on any bridge.

Would be nice to see that update for sure!

Brent

valhallasound · Post by **valhallasound** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:52 pm

BERFAB wrote: In any event, almost all 64 bit DAWs now have bridges that allow you to use 32 bit plugs in an almost seamless manner.

Now 'almost' is the key here. I have tried to keep my 64 bit DAW clear of 32 bit plugs because I find that the bridge does cause performance problems.

"Almost" in this case, means "with the exception of Logic, which will usually crash in a few minutes using 32-bit plugins in 64-bit mode."

Seriously, most of the other DAWs that have 64-bit bridges seem to run fine with 32-bit plugins. I test in Reaper and Cubase on a daily basis, and apart from the bit bridges requiring you to click on a window to open the GUI, they work great.

Logic's bit bridge, OTOH, is very unstable. I get crashes all the time when running 32-bit plugins in there. This was the main reason for creating 64-bit AUs for my plugins - not because of any particular advantages of 64-bits, but because Logic can't run 32-bit plugins in 64-bit mode in any sort of stable fashion.

Sean Costello

valhallasound · Post by **valhallasound** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:54 pm

It is also worth noting that Apple sent out a note to some developers last year, letting them know that the next version of Logic will be 64-bit only. To me, this seems like they are just giving up on the bit bridge, and is part of a wider pattern of abandoning backwards compatibility in general.

Sean Costello

LAGinz · Post by **LAGinz** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:22 pm

Sean is obviously correct on the 64 bit status of Valhalla, but I would take issue with his suggestion that the bridges work flawlessly on all systems other than Logic. I have Studio One 2 and jbridge. While some 32 bit vsts work flawlessly in almost all situations, other bridged vsts sometimes have CPU spikes, closure issues, saving preset and/or automation issues. While jbridge does work very well, it is not a 100% cure all for the lack of native 64 bit vsts.

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:24 pm

valhallasound wrote:It is also worth noting that Apple sent out a note to some developers last year, letting them know that the next version of Logic will be 64-bit only. To me, this seems like they are just giving up on the bit bridge, and is part of a wider pattern of abandoning backwards compatibility in general.

Sean Costello

wow, in fl studio it seems to work well, people normally talk bad about it but reading this about logic wow, sounds not so high quality

.

valhallasound · Post by **valhallasound** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:29 pm

LAGinz wrote:Sean is obviously correct on the 64 bit status of Valhalla, but I would take issue with his suggestion that the bridges work flawlessly on all systems other than Logic. I have Studio One 2 and jbridge. While some 32 bit vsts work flawlessly in almost all situations, other bridged vsts sometimes have CPU spikes, closure issues, saving preset and/or automation issues. While jbridge does work very well, it is not a 100% cure all for the lack of native 64 bit vsts.

I haven't tried things in Studio One for awhile. I guess my point was that one of the big DAW makers has HUGE issues with the 32-bit bridge in their DAW, and they also are the creators of the plugin format being used, the OS the DAW runs in, and the computer the OS runs on. If Apple can't get things working successfully, it would seem that 32->64 bit bridges are fairly tricky things to create.

Will 32-bit apps even run on Mountain Lion? I need to read up on this. If OS 10.8 requires everything to run in 64-bits, this will force the hands of a lot of developers. Not just 64-bit VSTs and AUs, but also porting RTAS over to AAX, as there are no future plans for 64-bit RTAS plugins.

Sean Costello

gpunk · Post by **gpunk** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:03 pm

Caine123 wrote:why would you recommend vahalla more and what advantages does it have?

CSR is amazing, It's main downfall is it is made by IK, They have become a terrible company that have an amazing back catalogue of out of date product (Massive shame, in fact shameful of IK)

VRoom is amazing and has amazing support

(Both will get you awesome results)

gpunk · Post by **gpunk** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:04 pm

valhallasound wrote:I test in Reaper and Cubase on a daily basis, and apart from the bit bridges requiring you to click on a window to open the GUI, they work great.
Sean Costello

You can embed plugs in the bridge in Reaper, no need for the extra click to open it

Bronto Scorpio · Post by **Bronto Scorpio** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:16 pm

Caine123 wrote:why would you recommend vahalla more and what advantages does it have?

It sounds amazing (has no problem to compete with the really expensive reverbs), is very flexible, constant updates, is available in most plugin formats and has a very nice and responsive developer.

And it's always a good thing to support the small developers

The best 50$ you'll ever spend on a plugin!

Cheers
Dennis

LAGinz · Post by **LAGinz** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:22 pm

I'm pretty much in agreement with Gpunk here. Both Valhalla and IK make very good reverbs. The difference is in the way they treat their customers. Every response I have seen from Sean, on this thread and others, reflects a respect for the intelligence of the customer or potential customer. Just as one small example of this, he has been keeping people updated on the progress of Valhalla and 64 bit OSX compatibility. On the other hand, whenever I have asked this question of IK (re: either CSR or Sampletank powered vsts), all I get is "we're working on it....that's all I can tell you". This is exaccerbated, of course, by the fact they have been so slow at 64 bit conversion on these products--while having no problem turning out new iphone apps. for every day of the week. BTW, I own both IK and Valhalla products.

Xenobt · Post by **Xenobt** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:20 am

I'm not sure how deep the development bench is at IK, but there's a LOT of ios stuff being released and someone is having design and debug it, so that can't make the high bit-rate releases faster!

But I don't think anyone could have seen the ithing/andread market becoming as big as it is, and you have to stay nimble and respond as a company. I'm sure the whole roadmap at IK changed. And I wish them all the best with it, truly!

They make great stuff at prices that finally brought tools like these into my budget range. And truth be known, probably motivated companies like Waves and NI to lower their prices too.

But the leap to 64 bit won't be truly universal until Pro Tools does it, and I spoke with a Avid rep who said the latest version of PT (10) being shipped is the last 32 bit one. From Avid: (courtesy createdigitalmusic.com)

"The RTAS and TDM formats will continue to be supported in the 32-bit versions of Pro Tools but will not be supported once Pro Tools is released as a 64-bit application. The new AAX plug-in format is the bridge to 64-bit plug-ins for the Pro Tools and Media Composer platform."

So if someone as big as Avid is still working on it, with their HUGE and well-funded user base, maybe there's more to it than meets the eye.

And remember, all you 64 bit folks out there, you're still early adopters, so you get the rewards AND headaches and pave the way for the versions I'll buy once the dust settles. Thanks!

KVR/eSoundz: Xenobt

LAGinz · Post by **LAGinz** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:05 am

You know what, Xenobit, I partially agree with you, but I do not believe that is an excuse for IK's arrogance in not providing its customers with any useful information for planning purposes. If they said something like---"The market demand for iphone products has been much greater than we anticipated, and therefore we will not be able to release 64 bit versions until the end of 2012", I would respect that communication, even though I might personally not like those priorities. Instead, every time I ask, I feel like in essence they are saying "none of your business".

IKM Reverb package, what reverbs for what?