Waldorf PPG v3 opinions

[ENV1]

When i had the chance to check out PPG3 and Largo (about a year ago IIRC) they both had two things in common: Bland uninteresting sounding oscillators (i am talking about the basic 'raw' sound here) and about the most inefficiently coded GUIs i have seen in my entire life.

Playing a preset with the GUI visible would make the CPU leap to 40%+ (on average) because the keyboard animation would suck CPU cycles like a proverbial Hoover. Playing the same preset with the GUI invisible would only take 6-8% anymore. Dragging the mouse quickly across the GUI keyboard would make the CPU overload.

Same went for knobs. Moving any knob with the mouse would drive the CPU load all the way up to 55%, which means the simple task of rotating a thumbnail-size image by a couple degrees devoured the calculating power of an entire 3000MHz processor core. (It was a DualCore CPU.) In fact this simple process required so much calculating power that even though it already burned an entire core the knob animation still lagged way behind the actual mouse movement. (And i mean WAY behind.) God only knows how much calculating power it would have required to make the animation move in realtime.


The opinion this experience has left me with: Largo and PPG3 both sucked big time, at least at the time. The sound wasnt worth the money it cost at all, (not by a longshot), and the way those two were wasting CPU cycles was simply mean. If every plugin behaved like those two did you would either have to limit yourself to one plugin at a time or have a computer with 3 dozen 10000MHz cores...

[PietW.]

When i had the chance to check out PPG3 and Largo (about a year ago IIRC) they both had two things in common: Bland uninteresting sounding oscillators (i am talking about the basic 'raw' sound here) and about the most inefficiently coded GUIs i have seen in my entire life.

Playing a preset with the GUI visible would make the CPU leap to 40%+ (on average) because the keyboard animation would suck CPU cycles like a proverbial Hoover. Playing the same preset with the GUI invisible would only take 6-8% anymore. Dragging the mouse quickly across the GUI keyboard would make the CPU overload.

Same went for knobs. Moving any knob with the mouse would drive the CPU load all the way up to 55%, which means the simple task of rotating a thumbnail-size image by a couple degrees devoured the calculating power of an entire 3000MHz processor core. (It was a DualCore CPU.) In fact this simple process required so much calculating power that even though it already burned an entire core the knob animation still lagged way behind the actual mouse movement. (And i mean WAY behind.) God only knows how much calculating power it would have required to make the animation move in realtime.


The opinion this experience has left me with: Largo and PPG3 both sucked big time, at least at the time. The sound wasnt worth the money it cost at all, (not by a longshot), and the way those two were wasting CPU cycles was simply mean. If every plugin behaved like those two did you would either have to limit yourself to one plugin at a time or have a computer with 3 dozen 10000MHz cores...

This will probably be one of the many reasons why no one buys my PPG 3.V.

[ENV1]

This will probably be one of the many reasons why no one buys my PPG 3.V.

Likely.

Since i know how much it sucks to be stuck with a piece of software you have no use for you do have my sympathy...

[PietW.]

This will probably be one of the many reasons why no one buys my PPG 3.V.

Likely.

Since i know how much it sucks to be stuck with a piece of software you have no use for you do have my sympathy...

Thank you for your participation

[izonin]

Not a huge fan of PPG, but Largo is great. The oscillators are identical to the ones in Blofeld. Maybe the Mac version is buggy, but on Windows it works without a glitch.

[Ingonator]

Hi everyone,

as recently there were several complaints about different Waldorf synths i thought it would be good to have a specific space for bug reports and/or feature requests. I just started a new thread:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=347668


Ingo

[1-2-Many]

I don't consider the 'busy on other stuff' argument as an acceptable reason in these circumstances personally.

Especially when you consider what the "other stuff" is...an ipad synth and another analog synth

AND! in light of what ENV1 posted - their inattention to these problems is shameful at best..doesn't exactly promote consumer confidence with their brand.

[Igro]

When i had the chance to check out PPG3 and Largo (about a year ago IIRC) they both had two things in common: Bland uninteresting sounding oscillators (i am talking about the basic 'raw' sound here) and about the most inefficiently coded GUIs i have seen in my entire life.

Playing a preset with the GUI visible would make the CPU leap to 40%+ (on average) because the keyboard animation would suck CPU cycles like a proverbial Hoover. Playing the same preset with the GUI invisible would only take 6-8% anymore. Dragging the mouse quickly across the GUI keyboard would make the CPU overload.

Same went for knobs. Moving any knob with the mouse would drive the CPU load all the way up to 55%, which means the simple task of rotating a thumbnail-size image by a couple degrees devoured the calculating power of an entire 3000MHz processor core. (It was a DualCore CPU.) In fact this simple process required so much calculating power that even though it already burned an entire core the knob animation still lagged way behind the actual mouse movement. (And i mean WAY behind.) God only knows how much calculating power it would have required to make the animation move in realtime.


The opinion this experience has left me with: Largo and PPG3 both sucked big time, at least at the time. The sound wasnt worth the money it cost at all, (not by a longshot), and the way those two were wasting CPU cycles was simply mean. If every plugin behaved like those two did you would either have to limit yourself to one plugin at a time or have a computer with 3 dozen 10000MHz cores...

I guess that you tried the old versions. Largo for me is quite light on CPU, but the first DoC preset . Doc needs to optimize his own presets.
I love the sound of Largo. Unison spread is HUGE. Have you tried to use the Filter Bass Boost button? Of course it's all subjective...

But GUI... I wish they change the whole graphic(not the layout though)

[ENV1]

The problem was not the presets.

CPU usage of the presets was well within what i consider a reasonable margin for synths with such an amount of feature components.

The problem was extremely inefficiently coded GUIs. With the calculating power those two burned just to animate a knob position or a couple of keyboard keys, other synths could probably perform a 3 minute instrument part. And thats pitiful, if you ask me. (Even more so if this still isnt fixed.)


As for checking out features, no, it didnt take me very long to realize that those two are a waste of time, so i did not even bother to go beyond checking out the OSCs basic sound, which, as i said, i did not particularly like either...

[1-2-Many]

The problem was not the presets.

CPU usage of the presets was well within what i consider a reasonable margin for synths with such an amount of feature components.

The problem was extremely inefficiently coded GUIs. With the calculating power those two burned just to animate a knob position or a couple of keyboard keys, other synths could probably perform a 3 minute instrument part. And thats pitiful, if you ask me. (Even more so if this still isnt fixed.)


As for checking out features, no, it didnt take me very long to realize that those two are a waste of time, so i did not even bother to go beyond checking out the OSCs basic sound, which, as i said, i did not particularly like either...

I'd be interested in an updated re-evaluation if you're prone to do one. I own PPG v2 license (bundle) but am/was reluctant to upgrade to V3 mostly because of reports like yours.

I'm no DSP coder, but the GUI issues sounds like they may be sending GUI calculations through the audio stream.

[EvilDragon]

No GUI issues hogging CPU like that over here... using Win XP and Win 7 on a PC desktop and a laptop, Largo v1.5.1.

[Igro]

The problem was not the presets.

CPU usage of the presets was well within what i consider a reasonable margin for synths with such an amount of feature components.

The problem was extremely inefficiently coded GUIs. With the calculating power those two burned just to animate a knob position or a couple of keyboard keys, other synths could probably perform a 3 minute instrument part. And thats pitiful, if you ask me. (Even more so if this still isnt fixed.)


As for checking out features, no, it didnt take me very long to realize that those two are a waste of time, so i did not even bother to go beyond checking out the OSCs basic sound, which, as i said, i did not particularly like either...

I got what you mean. In the past the slow GUI was killing me! I remember this. Fortunately I have a new machine and such bug never bothered me since.

[MickGael]

...I would like to see the 2.V either truly emulated or ideally, the actually codebase carried over to the 3.V so it can be switched between 3.V or true 2.V operation. At very least, improvements and more accurate 2.V program importing.

+1 I keep both versions installed for this very reason.

[penguinfromdeep]

The PPG 3.v has a special sound for sure. For my music it's great. In my experience it's great for anything vintage, it's great for vintage electronic music for example (chicago/vintage house etc). I wouldn't personally probably see much use for it in modern dance styles like progressive house etc.. It has more mellow, wooly character ... It sounds great to me and I bought it when it came out! Matter of preference too and what kind of sounds you're into ... For sure the basic quality is great and very analog-like, just not in your face like sylenth etc

[Igro]

The PPG 3.v has a special sound for sure. For my music it's great. In my experience it's great for anything vintage, it's great for vintage electronic music for example (chicago/vintage house etc). I wouldn't personally probably see much use for it in modern dance styles like progressive house etc.. It has more mellow, wooly character ... It sounds great to me and I bought it when it came out! Matter of preference too and what kind of sounds you're into ... For sure the basic quality is great and very analog-like, just not in your face like sylenth etc

Really good description of PPG3.That's what I felt while demoing it. Need to get the demo again.